[B-Greek] John 10:10b (was "First Post")
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Jul 18 12:29:48 EDT 2006
On Jul 18, 2006, at 9:51 AM, ray wrote:
> Hello everybody -
>
> I have just received my email confirmation so if I am asking something
> that's been discussed before please excuse me.
Actually, you may raise any issue concerning the Biblical Greek text
even if it has been discussed previously, and in view of the fact
that we have archives of list-correspondence going all the way back
to 1991, there are relatively few passages of significant difficulty
or interest that haven't been discussed; questions about some
passages are raised without almost predictable regularity, again and
again.
But as a new list-member, you really need to read, as it is clear
that you haven't yet done so, the B-Greek FAQ, which sets forth the
basic description and guidelines for BG list-members, including
appropriate boundaries of list-discussion, our standard scheme of
transliterating Greek text into plain-text ASCII (we don't use Greek
fonts and at this point we are not yet ready for regular use of
Unicode Greek), and our rules of netiquette (including our insistence
that all posters to the list sign their messages with a full-name
signature). You will find the FAQ at:
http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/faq.txt
> I have a little discussion going on about John 10:10b. I understand
> "that
> they may have life" is in the subjunctive mood but since "hina" is
> there, it
> is declaring a cause-result - a purpose - not a possibility as is
> the usual
> case of subjunctive moods.
Text (we find it easier to discuss any passage under consideration if
we have the relevant text in transliterated form before our eyes in
the message:
... hINA ZWHN ECWSIN KAI PERISSON ECWSIN.
>
> My question is: Could the second predicate - "they might have
> abundance" -
> which is also subjunctive, suggest probability since the "hina" is
> used on
> only the first verb?
PERISSON is actually not a noun such as "abaundance" but rather an
adverb here: "abundantly." I would agree that the clause KAI PERISSON
ECWSIN should be understood as a clarifying expansion of hINA ZWHN
ECWSIN, and in fact it's generally Englished that way: "so that they
may have life, and in fact, may have (it) abundantly."
> In other words - could the second verb be considered a subset of
> the first
> group. That is - is it a possibility - that the ones who have
> abundance are
> part of the ones you have life.
>
> That then would suggest that those having life as a result of His
> coming -
> MAY then have abundance as a possibility since the abundance is
> dependent on
> our doing - obeying after we have eternal life.
>
> First predicate - purposeful; second predicate = possibiility.
> I apologize if this is not quite as clear as it could be - but I am
> in a
> hurry to add share with others the info you give me here.
I think you're reading more into the KAI PERISSON ECWSIN clause than
is actually there. The essential content of Jn 10:9-10 is the
antithesis between Jesus as "good shepherd" and the thief: the thief
comes to steal, slaughter, and destroy, while the good shepherd has
come to give life and give it abundantly.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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