[B-Greek] Rm 9:7a Seed of Abraham or Children of Abraham

Iver Larsen iver at larsen.dk
Mon May 1 03:58:36 EDT 2006


Dear Oun,

Although this list is not primarily concerned with translation, it is concerned with the meaning of Greek words like 
SPERMA and TEKNON, and meaning is often obscured by bad or literal translations.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Oun Kwon" <kwonbbl at gmail.com>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rm 9:7a Seed of Abraham or Children of Abraham


> Hi Iver,
> Regarding 'SPERMA' + 'ABRAAM' vs. 'TEKNA', though 'children' and
> 'seed' are overlapping in semantic and usage, and many use
> 'descendants' for 'SPERMA' : e.g.
>
> "nor are all the children Abraham's true descendants"  (NET)

A good example of a bad translation. It is unclear who these children are, and "all" should not be prefixed to children. 
And "true descendants" is obscure, because the wrong word "descendant" was used, and "true" is added in the wrong place.

>
> whereas NRSV confusedly mixed the two words up -
> "not all of Abraham's children are his true descendants."

This is a bit better, but still confusing because the words "descendant" and "children" are being used in the wrong 
places.

> I was amazed to read a Korean translation where both are rendered same
> (meaning 'descendants').

Yes, it is a problem if the translator chooses a word that cannot easily be extended beyond its literal use. 
"Descendant" in English refers to physical descent. But the intended meaning in this verse for SPERMA ABRAAM is physical 
descent while TEKNA (ABRAAM) refers to spiritual descent. The English "children" can more easily be extended beyond its 
literal sense, since it is possible, if not natural, to talk about "children of faith" or "children of God", but not 
"descendants of faith" or "descendants of God".

Whoever did the NET and NRSV translation would get a bad mark in my translation class - which they obviously did not 
attend. The old RSV is better here:
"and not all are children of Abraham because they are his descendants." This still requires the reader to understand 
children in an extended spiritual sense, but that should be possible.

NIV is also OK, and essentially the same as the RSV:
"Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children."

As is often the case, the most literal versions obscure the intended meaning. NLT, GNB and NCV are all better than the 
ones I just mentioned. I think I prefer the NLT here:
"Just the fact that they are descendants of Abraham doesn't make them truly Abraham's children."

Here you can see the play on the narrow "descendants" and the broader "children" in English. The word "all" has been 
made implicit in "they", but that is not a major problem. I would prefer, though, to keep it, and say: "The fact that 
they are all descendants of Abraham, doesn't necessarily make them Abraham's spiritual children."

Iver Larsen
SIL Translation Consultant 




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