[B-Greek] Distinguishing the "we"

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue May 16 09:44:54 EDT 2006


On May 16, 2006, at 8:17 AM, Eric Inman wrote:

> Carl,
>
> I think you're talking about something different than what Guy is  
> referring
> to. For example, Bahasa Indonesia has two words for "we:" "kita"  
> and "kami."
> "Kita" includes those being addressed, "kami" excludes them. As you  
> might
> imagine, this feature comes in very handy sometimes.
>
> Mark 9:38 is an example where translators use both words:
>
> EIDOMEN (kami) TINA ... EKBALLONTA DAIMONIA, KAI EKWLUOMEN (kami)  
> AUTON,
> hOTI OUK HKOULOUQEI hHMIN (kita).

Your "kami" and "kita" looks to me not different from subject and  
object (or indirect object) forms of the pronoun; but in the example  
you've cited, I don't see that the persons included in the "we" of  
EIDOMEN and EKLUOMEN are distinguished from the persons included in  
the hHMIN.

I don't think that really furthers our understanding of what Guy  
Gavero is asking.

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Carl Conrad
> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 5:39 AM
> To: B-Greek B-Greek
> Cc: guy gavero
> Subject: [B-Greek] Distinguishing the "we"
>
>  From  From: guy gavero <guygavero at yahoo.com.ph>
> Date: May 16, 2006 3:37:16 AM EDT
> Subject: Distinguishing the "we"
>
> Dear Sirs,
>
>   I am a beginner in koine greek. I am just studying from the
> textbooks of my father.
>   My question is how to distinguish between the "we" that includes
> the person/s who are listening to the
> speaker, and the "we" that does NOT include the listeners (only the
> group accompanying the speaker).
>
> Thank so much for your answer.
>
> Guy Gavero
>
> Your question is not altogether clear, and it would be much easier to
> interpret if you had given us a sentence or two containing the
> elements you are describing. Nevertheless I'm assuming you mean
> something like this: in one sentence the first-person-plural verb
> must be referring to an entire group while in another part of that
> group is being addressed by others. Let me suggest an example:
>
> In 1 Cor 8:4-9 Paul writes
>
> 	4 PERI THS BRWSEWS OUN TWN EIDWLOQUTWN, OIDAMEN hOTI OUDEN EIDWLON
> EN KOSMWi KAI hOTI OUDEIS QEOS EI MH hEIS ... 7 ALL' OUK EN PASIN hH
> GNWSIS ... 8 BRWMA DE hHMAS OU PARASTHSEI TWi QEWi ... 9 BLEPETE DE
> MH PWS hH EXOUSIA hUMWN hAUTH PROSKOMMA GENHTAI TOIS ASQENESIN.
>
> In verse 4 OIDAMEN indicates that those members of the Corinthian
> congregation who are addressed share with Paul the GNWSIS of the non-
> existence of the EIDWLA; in verse 7 Paul says that some people don't
> have that GNWSIS; in verse 8 he says that what WE eat will not bring
> US close to God; but in verse 9 he speaks to those very ones of whom
> he had earlier said "we know" -- and warns them not to let their
> "freedom" be an occasion of misbehavior by those who don't have the
> same GNWSIS that Paul and those being addressed have.
>
> Now, IF that's what you're talking about, it's something you have to
> recognize and understand from the context; it occurs, but it doesn't
> occur that often, and I don't think this is something distinct about
> Greek but is rather something you'd find in any language.
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad at ioa.com or cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/





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