[B-Greek] KAI...DE in Jn 8:17
Webb
webb at selftest.net
Sun Oct 1 00:00:50 EDT 2006
Dear Iver,
I regard it as a red flag of sorts when the same form appears to be given
two different weights in adjacent uses. Admittedly the word EI in Jn 8:16 in
and of itself makes the clause a subordinate clause. But if we're asking,
"can KAI...DE together function as a subordinating conjunction", then the
question about 8:17 is still alive.
You say that in context Jesus is not conceding anything, but only observing
as a kind of illustration that "their" law requires two witnesses. On the
contrary, all of his remarks from 8:14 onwards are a response to the
Pharisees' accusation that his testimony is invalid because he is only one
witness (cf. Jn 8:13; 5:31; Deut. 17:6; 19:5). So it is entirely natural
that Jesus should concede that two witnesses are required. Thus he says,
arguably,
"Even though it's written in your law that the testimony of two witnesses is
true, I'm one person testifying about myself, and my Father, who sent me, is
testifying." [That makes two witnesses.]
Webb Mealy
-----Original Message-----
From: Iver Larsen [mailto:iver_larsen at sil.org]
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 12:29 AM
To: Webb; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] KAI...DE in Jn 8:17
----- Original Message -----
From: "Webb" <webb at selftest.net>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] KAI...DE in Jn 8:17
> So, would one translate 8:16 as
>
> "And even if I do judge, my judgment is true",
Yes, that would be find. RSV says: "Yet even if I do judge"
The KAI intensifies the EAN and DE is the normal "change" discourse
connector. Usually DE is in the second position, but
sometimes later when other elements are fronted.
>
> And 8:17 as
>
> "And even [though] it's written in your law that the testimony of two
people
> is true, I am the one person testifying, and the Father who sent me is
> testifying.
I don't see any concessive "though" implied here. The KAI qualifies EN TWi
NOMWi, so the idea is that not only is this
something I am just saying, but it is based on what even/also your (own) law
says. Since there are two witnesses, the
witness is apparently considered valid according to their law. I don't know
Hebrew legal tradition well enough to know
whether one's own witness is allowed as one of the two.
Iver Larsen
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