[B-Greek] Jn 1:1 - Alternate Reading?
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Thu Oct 5 15:59:11 EDT 2006
Ask and you shall receive. Unfortunately, I only have an English translation to offer (Well, no matter since most of Irenaeus is a translation in any case). Irenaeus, _Against Heresies_, i.8
___________
5. Further, they teach that John, the disciple of the Lord, indicated the first Ogdoad, expressing themselves in these words: John, the disciple of the Lord, wishing to set forth the origin of all things, so as to explain how the Father produced the whole, lays down a certain principle,—that, namely, which was first-begotten by God, which Being he has termed both the only-begotten Son and God, in whom the Father, after a seminal manner, brought forth all things. By him the Word was produced, and in him the whole substance of the Aeons, to which the Word himself afterwards imparted form. Since, therefore, he treats of the first origin of things, he rightly proceeds in his teaching from the beginning, that is, from God and the Word. And he expresses himself thus: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; the same was in the beginning with God.” Having first of all distinguished these three—God, the Beginning, and the Word—he
again unites them, that he may exhibit the production of each of them, that is, of the Son and of the Word, and may at the same time show their union with one another, and with the Father. For “the beginning” is in the Father, and of the Father, while “the Word” is in the beginning, and of the beginning. Very properly, then, did he say, “In the beginning was the Word,” for He was in the Son; “and the Word was with God,” for He was the beginning; “and the Word was God,” of course, for that which is begotten of God is God. “The same was in the beginning with God”—this clause discloses the order of production. “All things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made; ” for the Word was the author of form and beginning to all the Aeons that came into existence . . .
Roberts, A., Donaldson, J., & Coxe, A. C. (1997). The Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol.I : Translations of the writings of the Fathers down to A.D. 325. The apostolic fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus. (328). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems.
george
gfsomsel
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----- Original Message ----
From: James Spinti <JSpinti at Eisenbrauns.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2006 3:27:28 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Jn 1:1 - Alternate Reading?
As I asked the last time this whole thing came up--maybe 3 weeks ago?
Why does no one who is arguing for the "a god" translation go back to
the early church fathers who knew Greek? Is this verse ever used as an
argument in any of their treatises (both for and against Arianism)? They
KNEW Greek, they spoke it, thought in it, breathed it-if you will. As
far as I can tell from my somewhat limited reading (but more than the
last time the question came up!), neither side used John 1 as an
argument. It was a non-starter, grammatically.
I am open to being shown wrong, but in view of our more limited
knowledge of Greek, we should show a bit of humility before their
silence in using the supposed "indefiniteness" of QEOS as an argument.
Maybe we should concentrate on reading Greek, and not trying to proof
text our own theological viewpoint, especially if our knowledge of Greek
is limited to a year or three of college/seminary Greek (and only NT
Koine at that!).
Frustratedly,
James
(yes, I have an advanced degree in Classics...)
________________________________
James Spinti
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Eisenbrauns, Good books for over 30 years
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> Awohili at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 2:22 PM
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Jn 1:1 - Alternate Reading?
>
>
> OK, so forget the theology and get back to the grammar. Is
> QEOS at John
> 1:1c definite, indefinite, or qualitative?
>
> Solomon Landers
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