[B-Greek] Jn 1:1 - Alternate Reading?
winsco at hotmail.co.uk
winsco at hotmail.co.uk
Thu Oct 5 21:01:27 EDT 2006
En arxh hn o logov, kai o logov hn prov ton qeon, kai qeov hn o logov.
It does not seem that anyone responded to my question as to whether TON QEON
is better understood the God (John 1:1b with the God) so may I add this
to what I have said already (hope this is not too long for the list).
When we say person we normally think in terms of an individual. In this
(individual) sense we understand God and the Word as being two separate
persons (two individuals). This I believe is what John meant when he wrote
and the Word was WITH (the) God. Obviously, in this (individual) sense,
one person (individual) cannot be the same person (individual) as he is
with (another individual).
John says though (unequivocally I think) that the Word is God (not a God
neither a god). In this particular sense I think that the person is
exactly the same in the God and in the Word. Allow me to explain by
using Hebrews 1:1-3.
As the KJV puts this verse (I use capitals by way of highlighting only)
GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the
fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us BY HIS SON,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON
(gr. Hupostasis), and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he
had BY HIMSELF purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of THE MAJESTY ON
HIGH Hebrews 1:1-3
Here we have the writer of Hebrews differentiating between God (the majesty
on high) and His Son therefore again as in John 1:1 we see two persons as in
individuals. Note though the use of the word person in verse 3 (the
express image of His [Gods] person). Obviously, the image the Son - is
another individual of whom He is an image in this case God (the majesty on
high).
The word person here though (in verse 3 KJV) is from hupostasis which
has the meaning of: - that which is the foundation or under-girding of
something, its sub-structure or substance, its very cause of being, its
state, its standing (everything that makes it what it is).
Thus according to the writer of Hebrews the Son, being the express image of
Gods hupostasis, is the very image of the foundation or under-girding
of God - Gods sub-structure or substance - His very cause of being, His
state, His standing, (everything that makes God what He is) yet He is, as an
individual person, separate from God (the majesty on high).
As the NEB excellently puts it (I think) and what God was, the word was.
Thus we have two usages of the word person.
(a) An individual
(b) What makes an individual (person) what they are (the sub-structure,
substance or very foundation). Perhaps as we might say today a persons
genes.
As John 1:1 says
and the Word was with God (an individual) and the Word
was God (Gods sub-structure, foundation, very substance, everything that
God is)
It is very interesting to note that William Tyndale translated Hebrews 1:3
as saying (using capitals again as highlighting only)
Which sonne beynge the brightnes of his glory and VERY IMAGE OF HIS
SUBSTANCE bearinge vp all thinges with the worde of his power hath in his
AWNE PERSON pourged oure synnes and is sitten on the right honde of the
maiestie an hye
Tyndale (I believe) captured what the writer of Hebrews was saying (note he
said very image of his substance not person as KJV). Not that the Son is
an express image of God in person (in outward appearance) but as an express
image of Gods inner being - substance, under-girding, foundation, what
makes God what He is. Thus we have as in John 1:18, God the only begotten.
Both John and the writer of Hebrews say that the Word (the Son who became
flesh) was God essentially.
Note that Tyndale said in his awne person (KJV himself) thus denoting as
John said that the Word became flesh (and bore our sins) and not that the
God (the majesty on high) from whom He was a separate person (individual)
was made flesh.
My apologies for the length of this post but it was the only way to explain
what I believe that John (1:1) was saying. I know it bordered very closely
on theology but I hope I stayed within the parameters of this list. My
apologies if I did not.
Regards
Walter Schofield
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