[B-Greek] B-Greek discussion of John 1:1
Robert Newman
rob at designceramics.co.uk
Fri Oct 6 16:09:24 EDT 2006
Hello Carl,
I appreciate the way you preside over these discussions.
The list achieves will through up a huge amount of material. I remember some
time ago you posted a list of references to some key discussions/posts here
on this topic. I have found it and hope you don't mind me posting this again
for the benefit of those that want to research this topic.
Hope this is helpful
Robert Newman
You wrote on Sun Mar 6 15:06:12 EST 2005
...
I think you'd do well to look at a 4-page PDF file on "Colwell's Rule" put
together by Rod Decker and accessible at
http://faculty.bbc.edu/rdecker/documents/colwell.pdf
A lot of water has passed under the bridge on this issue since 1933;
moreover, I reproduce below a message I sent to the list a bit over four
years ago about some of the more significant discussions of this topic
(Colwell's Rule and Jn 1:1c) over the years on B-Greek; needless to say, my
list below is by no means exhaustive, but I think Rod's paper cited above
is pretty useful.
At 3:43 PM -0600 3/1/01, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>Hoping to give some older fodder to chew on to those who are determined to
>retread this ground, I list herewith some of the earlier discussions that
>focused essentially on John 1:1c. This is by no means an exhaustive list,
>as the topic recurs regularly at least once every half-year, and there have
>been several discussions in the past two years as well as these from mid-98
>and earlier.
>
>Stephen Carlson 1/18/96 Qualitative QEOS in John
>Wes C. Williams 1/19/96 Re: Qualitative QEOS in John
>Wes C. Williams 1/19/96 Qualitative QEOS in John
>Stephen Carlson 1/22/96 Re: Qualitative QEOS in John
>Stephen Carlson 1/22/96 A Bayesian Analysis of Jn1:1 (long)
>Wes C. Williams 1/24/96 re: A Bayesian Analysis of Jn1:1 (long)
>Al Kidd 9/15/96 Qualitative-Indefinite Pre-verbal
>Predicates
>
>Carl W. Conrad 8/29/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Rolf Furuli 8/29/97 Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Paul S. Dixon 8/29/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Paul S. Dixon 9/1/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Williams, Wes 9/2/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Paul S. Dixon 9/2/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Rolf Furuli 9/2/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Williams, Wes 9/2/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Williams, Wes 9/3/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Carl W. Conrad 9/3/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Apokrisis1 at aol.com 9/3/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Rolf Furuli 9/4/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>gjordan 9/4/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Dale M. Wheeler 9/6/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Rolf Furuli 9/7/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Rolf Furuli 9/8/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Rolf Furuli 9/8/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>John Kendall 9/8/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>Rolf Furuli 9/9/97 Re: Jn 1:1, Colwell, Nelson Stdy Bible
>
>Apokrisis1 at aol.com 9/3/97 Qualitative and Indefinite
>John Kendall 9/6/97 Re: Qualitative and Indefinite
>Apokrisis1 at aol.com 9/8/97 Qualitative, Indefinite, or Definite?
>Al Kidd 9/15/96 Qualitative-Indefinite Pre-verbal
>Predicates
>
>Rolf Furuli 9/5/97 John 1:1c --- An Experiment
>
>Rolf Furuli 9/5/97 RE: ALLOS and Jn. 1:1c/Was Anarthrous Subject
>CWestf5155 at aol.com 9/6/97 Re: ALLOS and Jn. 1:1c/Was Anarthrous Subject
>CWestf5155 at aol.com 9/4/97 Re: Anarthrous Subject with Articular
>Predicate
>Carl W. Conrad 9/6/97 Re: John 1:1
>
>Williams, Wes 9/19/97 RE: John 1:1 QEOS definitely definite?
>Rev. Craig R. Harmon 9/22/97 Re: John 1:1 QEOS definitely definite?
>Jonathan Robie 9/22/97 Re: John 1:1 QEOS definitely definite?
>Carl W. Conrad 9/22/97 Re: John 1:1 QEOS definitely definite?
>Williams, Wes 9/23/97 Re: John 1:1 QEOS definitely definite?
>
>Jonathan Robie 10/11/97 RE: Translation for O LOGOS (John 1)?
>Carl W. Conrad 10/11/97 RE: Translation for O LOGOS (John 1)?
>
>Jonathan Robie 1/2/98 Re: Gramcord notes on the article
>Rolf Furuli 1/2/98 Re: Gramcord notes on the article
>
>Jonathan Robie 1/2/98 Mounce: hO LOGOS HN QEOS
>Carl W. Conrad 1/2/98 Re: Mounce: hO LOGOS HN QEOS
>Jonathan Robie 1/2/98 Re: Mounce: hO LOGOS HN QEOS
>Carl W. Conrad 1/2/98 Re: Mounce: hO LOGOS HN QEOS
>Stephen C. Carlson 1/2/98 Re: Mounce: hO LOGOS HN QEOS
>Jonathan Robie 1/2/98 Re: Mounce: hO LOGOS HN QEOS
>Jonathan Robie 1/2/98 Re: Mounce: hO LOGOS HN QEOS
>Paul S. Dixon 1/2/98 Re: Mounce: hO LOGOS HN QEOS
>Carl W. Conrad 1/2/98 Re: Mounce: hO LOGOS HN QEOS
>Daniel Riaño 1/4/98 Re: Mounce: hO LOGOS HN QEOS
>
>mjoseph 1/3/98 Articles, theology, and translation
>Rolf Furuli 1/3/98 Re: Articles, theology, and translation
>
>Carl W. Conrad 12/31/97 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Carl W. Conrad 12/31/97 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Dale M. Wheeler 12/31/97 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Dale M. Wheeler 12/31/97 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Jonathan Robie 12/31/97 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Jonathan Robie 12/31/97 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Jonathan Robie 12/31/97 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Paul S. Dixon 1/1/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Wes Williams 1/1/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Williams, Wes 12/31/97 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Dale M. Wheeler 1/2/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Wes Williams 1/2/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Rolf Furuli 1/3/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Paul S. Dixon 1/5/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Jonathan Robie 1/5/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Jonathan Robie 1/6/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Al Kidd 1/6/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Al Kidd 1/6/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Paul S. Dixon 1/6/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Jonathan Robie 1/7/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Al Kidd 1/8/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>Al Kidd 1/8/98 Re: The article for abstract nouns
>
>Rolf Furuli 1/19/98 Re: (long) On the interpretation of the New Testament
>Rolf Furuli 2/10/98 Re: Jn.1:1b word order
>
>Rolf Furuli 2/13/98 Re: (long) Jn.1:1b word order
>Paul S. Dixon 2/13/98 Re: (long) Jn.1:1b word order
>
>Edgar Foster 4/7/98 Caird and Carson
>Jim West 4/7/98 Re: Caird and Carson
>Edgar Foster 4/7/98 Re: Caird and Carson
>
>Steve Long 6/11/98 A different look at John 1:1c
>Paul S. Dixon 6/12/98 Re: A different look at John 1:1c
>Steve Long 6/12/98 Re: A different look at John 1:1c
>Paul R. Zellmer 6/12/98 Re: A different look at John 1:1c
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
To: "B-Greek B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] B-Greek discussion of John 1:1
> Carlton Winbery, my co-chair for this forum, has just offered what I
> think is a splendid suggestion. The way he put it is this: Anyone who
> wishes to start a new thread or post on the subject of John 1:1 (and
> most especially John 1:1c) should be obliged to engage in a
> preliminary reading of all prior BG messages on John 1:1. After
> thinking about this, it rather seems to me that it would be quite
> sufficient to require that such potential posters read only the
> correspondence from 2006 on that subject: it would require some hours
> of effort and it just might make one think twice about the likelihood
> of saying something new on the matter that hasn't been aired
> previously (and repeated ad nauseam!).
>
> I am, of course, being facetious (do I need to draw a ;-) ?).
> Discussions of this topic are representative, nay, emblematic,
> perhaps the very "Inbegriff" of the inherent peril involved in open
> discussion of the Greek text of the Bible. The ways that B-Greekers
> view the Biblical text in its very nature as inspired Word of God, as
> a literary text, as a historical text, etc., etc. range across a very
> broad spectrum with list-members to be found at widely divergent
> points in that spectrum. Difficult as it is for some to conceive that
> there is any other meaningful perspective on the Biblical text than
> the one that he or she actually holds, the fact is that there does
> exist such divergence, and that divergence is the reason why
> discussions of the Biblical text, especially when the text concerns
> some matter that is vital to one's own faith-commitment, can easily
> degenerate into shouting matches or what is ordinarily called in
> internet parlance, "flame wars." And that is the reason why the
> moderators of B-Greek endeavor to restrain list-discussion within
> such lines as keep the focus upon the Greek language and the Greek
> text and AWAY from discussions of theological implications of any
> particular Biblical text or hermeneutical assertions of how -- apart
> from grammatical analysis -- one ought to interpret the import of a
> Biblical text after the meaning of the Greek text is grasped as
> surely and clearly as possible. Most of the time it is not difficult
> to keep the discussion within these parameters, but sometimes the
> effort becomes very arduous: nothing can bring on a headache quicker
> than recognition of a brand-new thread on John 1;1c, a discussion
> that seems almost inevitably driven by theological agendas which take
> the form (sometimes) of grammatical principles never found or applied
> elsewhere in the entire literary corpus of Koine Greek; perhaps we
> should talk about "grammatical theology" or "theological grammar." We
> all KNOW what the text really means (even if what we individually
> know is different from what others individually know), and
> consequently our endeavor is to discover the grammatical principles
> which will prove that our own understanding of the text is valid not
> only theologically but grammatically.
>
> Please do NOT reply to this message on-list! But take note: the next
> message calling for discussion of John 1:1c is likely to evoke an
> admonition to consult the previous whole year's archives for
> discussions of KAI QEOS HN hO LOGOS.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Co-Chair, B-Greek List
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu or cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
> ---
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>
>
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