[B-Greek] KOSMOS

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Fri Sep 1 15:00:41 EDT 2006


 
On Friday, September 01, 2006, at 10:58AM, Wounded Ego <woundedegomusic at gmail.com> wrote:

>It does not appear obvious to me from Luke 2:1 how OIKOUMENH is being
>rendered anything close to "habitat" since in the context it seems that the
>tax would be levied on the people within the land rather than on the land
>(because the people were required to leave their lands and provide
>biographical info).

I never suggested the notion "habitat." My point was simply that there is a
regular Koine Greek word for "inhabited world," which is exactly what 
OIKOUMENH is used to indicate. It is a feminine present passive participle with
the noun GH understood.

>
>What IS abundantly clear from the text is that Caesar was a Democrat! "All
>the world should be taxed!"  :)

This sort of remark is inappropriate, even in jest.

>
>KJV
>Luke 2:
>1   And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from
>Caesar Augustus, that all the world [THN OIKOUMENHN] should be taxed.
>
>I would think that in Luke 1, the sense is "the common people of the land,"
>or "the populace," no?

No, it means in effect "all people subject to Roman rule."
>
>But again, I was not suggesting "habitat" or "stage" as a gloss for KOSMOS,
>only showing that they echoed some of the sense of the context of KOSMOS, at
>least in John and Paul. These served only to show the link to the prevailing
>system/home as opposed to the vague gloss of "humanity in general" or the
>religion-specific definitions of "humanity in opposition to the god" or
>"humanity under the evil one."
>
>I contend that we should understand the OT/NT as standard Koine rather than
>imposing religious meanings on words.
>
>For example, the NIV "translation" of SARX as "sinful nature" imposes a
>meaning on the word that would not be extant in Koine and greatly obscures
>the text. If we approach Koine with a license to redefine words to suit our
>theological biases then where will we wind up? It seems to me that WYSIWYG
>is a fundamental hermeneutical principle (relevant to this list): "What you
>see is what you get." Koine did not require modification. It works fine. The
>first century language was not abandoned in favor of a vocabulary in a yet
>to be written glossary.
>
>I was troubled by KOSMOS (as used by John and Paul) because it seemed to
>violate that principle, but it was just my lack of appreciation of some
>elements of the word KOSMOS that I think I appreciate better now.
>
>William Ross
>VGB, Argentina
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Carl W. Conrad [mailto:cwconrad2 at mac.com] 
>Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:17 AM
>To: Wounded Ego
>Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] KOSMOS
>
>I honestly don't think "habitat" will do. While it is true 
>that KOSMOS does in some instances correlate to "world" as
>the inhabited world, the standard ancient Greek term for
>"the inhabited world" is OIKOUMENH (e.g. Lk 2:1, for which see 
>BDAG. That word is used 15x in the GNT. The sense of KOMOS, on 
>the other hand, does correspond in its breadth of idiomatic usage 
>to "world" in English, "monde" in French. As with many other Greek
>words used in the NT, it is appropriate to convey its sense as
>it appears in its context. Where it refers to "people generally"
>or "humanity" then it might be preferable to use one of those
>words/phrases as a gloss for KOSMOS in a specific passage. I think,
>however, that "world" is a standard English gloss for KOSMOS in 
>Bible versions in English is that "world" covers much the same
>RANGE of denotations and connotations as the Biblical Greek word
>KOSMOS.
>
>There have occasionally been discussions about the inadequacies of
>BDAG or L&N with regard to treatment of a particular word, but I
>don't see the word KOSMOS as a word mishandled by them.
>
>E.g., here's BDAG's entry on KOSMOS -- just a listing of headings
>and sub-headings, without the examples cited for each usage:
>
>KOSMOS, OU, hO (Hom.+)
>  1. that which serves to beautify through decoration, adornment, adorning
>  2. condition of orderliness, orderly arrangement, order
>  3. the sum total of everything here and now, the world, the (orderly)
>universe, in philosophical usage
>  4. the sum total of all beings above the level of the animals, the world
>  5. planet earth as a place of inhabitation, the world
>	a. generally
>	b. the world as the habitation of humanity
>	c. earth, world in contrast to heaven
>   6. humanity in general, the world
>	a. generally
>	b. of all humanity, but especially of believers, as the object of
>God?s love
>   7. the system of human existence in its many aspects, the world
>	a. as scene of earthly joys, possessions, cares, sufferings
>	b. the world, and everything that belongs to it, appears as that
>which is hostile to God, i.e. lost in sin, wholly at odds w. anything
>divine, ruined and depraved
>   8. collective aspect of an entity, totality, sum total
>
>
>On Friday, September 01, 2006, at 07:52AM, William Ross 
><woundedegomusic at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I think KOSMOS has a lot in common with the word "habitat." I am beginning
>>to get some images in my head, such as an aquarium. If fish in an aquarium
>>used the word KOSMOS then they would never be referring to the tank itself
>>(which was their "Universe") because they had no conception of that.
>Rather,
>>they would think of the picture on the back of the tank (their "sky") and
>>the arrangement of coral and the treasure chest and rocks, along with the
>>fish in the habitat. If, someone were to remove the picture from the back
>>and destroy the treasure chest and such and kill the fish, then the world
>>would be no more because the order was destroyed. If there were a new
>>pictu e and the treasure chest was remade as a pier, then that would be a
>>new world. Also, if a fish were first removed from the tank in a plastic
>bag
>>full of water, then replaced after the renewal, then he would live in a new
>>world - even though he is once again in the same tank, with largely the
>same
>>props. This is because it is a different habitat - a different life system.
>>
>>We see just this thing in 2 Peter 3:6
>>
>>4  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers
>>fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the
>>creation.
>>5  For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the
>>heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the
>>water:
>>6  Whereby the world [KOSMOS] that then was, being overflowed with water,
>>perished:
>>7  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept
>>in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of
>>ungodly men.
>>
>>The KOSMOS is also like a theatrical stage set. As Shakespeare said, "All
>>the world is a stage." One could tear down the set and then create a new
>>world. Believers are on the stage but not part of the set - not part of the
>>play.
>>
>>We also speak of "in my world" or "in his own world." Even in English there
>>is this sense of arrangement that is different from "humanity in general"
>>and the anachronistic "universe."
>>
>>In John and Paul, the "habitat" is primarily characterized by the "moral
>>climate" and the ones who dictate the "rules" of the society. 
>>
>>William Ross
>>VGB, Argentina
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>>[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Craig J
>>Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:18 PM
>>To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] KOSMOS
>>
>>Carlton Winbery wrote:
>>> John 1:10 seems to me to be three distinct uses of KOSMOS.
>>> 
>>> EN TWi KOSMWi HN, KAI hO KOSMOS DI' AUTOU EGENETO, KAI hO KOSMOS 
>>> AUTON OUK EGNW.
>>> 
>>> 1) alludes to him being part of humanity.
>>> 2) the universe
>>> 3) humanity apart from God
>>
>>I don't think such a strong and overly technical distinction is necessary.
>A
>>straight forward reading could make them all the same, as in the following
>>slight paraphrase:
>>
>>"He was in the world, and that world was made through him, and that world
>>did not know him"
>>
>>I guess KOSMOS would then equate to something like 'the mass of humanity'.
>>I'm not sure why you have 'humanity' for 1 & 3, but need to change it to
>>'the universe' for 2 in between..?
>>
>>--
>>Craig Johnson
>>Brisbane, Australia
>>Blog Experiment: http://bloggledegook.blogspot.com/
>>
>>---
>>B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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>>
>
>
>Carl W. Conrad
>Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
>1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>cwconrad2 at mac.com
>WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>---
>B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>B-Greek mailing list
>B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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>
>


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/



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