[B-Greek] Fwd: Imperfect and Aorist Tense-Aspects

cwestf5155 at aol.com cwestf5155 at aol.com
Fri Sep 15 16:22:31 EDT 2006


     
 -----Original Message-----
 From: cwestf5155 at aol.com
 To: edmishoe at yahoo.com
 Sent: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 2:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Imperfect and Aorist Tense-Aspects
 
  Eddie,
 
 A couple of brief responses.
 
 Let me further define the aorist is the default tense that views an action "in its entirety as a single complete whole"--I gather that you are used to this description, but I'm trying to be .
 
 Yes, I do think that past action is going to collocate with an aspect that views an action as a single complete whole. Completion correlates well with action completed in the past. I find contrary assertions unconvincing. 
 
 I find your suggestions that there would be tens of thousands of writers portraying the future with aorists uncovincing because the future is existentially contingent and therefore not complete by definition. But of course where contingency is grammaticalized with the subjunctive, the aorist is common.
 
 As for the present, well the use of the omnitemporal aorist is relatively widespread. For action that is taking place as the author is speaking (present time), the imperfect apect (present tense) is appropriate--present action would be close, salient and ongoing not the default tense. The aorist grammaticalizes reference to present time with the aorist when the process is seen as complete, such as Luke 19:42--VUN...EKRUBH, or the so called epistolary aorist.
 
 Don't worry, I don't take any of this personally or take offense on Stan's behalf--believe me, he doesn't need me to defend him. I am just puzzled. Maybe I don't follow you, but I thought that the specifics you referred to correlated with the same kind of issues in Slovinic languages (for example) in the general linguistic discussion on aspect that preceded him.
 
 Cindy Westfall
 Assistant Professor
 McMaster Divinity College
    
 -----Original Message-----
 From: edmishoe at yahoo.com
 To: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
 Sent: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 12:27 PM
 Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Imperfect and Aorist Tense-Aspects
 
  CWest wrote:

In the case of the aorist, the writer depicts 
simple complete action, which accounts for its close
association with past 
events, but also these other occurences. Notice that I
say "accounts 
for" not predicts. 

This is just one example of what I've mentioned in
other posts. Linguistically, one would NOT expect an
event to be PORTRAYED as complete (your Aorist) more
so in the past than in any other temporal reference.
We should fine tens of thousands of writers portraying
events in the future as complete (something you find
rare in Jude 14), and therefore, we should expect to
find tens of thousands of Aorists being used in this
fashion. On what linguistic grounds would you contend
that a writer rarely would want to portray a present
or future event as complete? Jude 14 should not at all
be rare. Presenting the Lord's coming as complete is
no more to be expected than presenting it as in
progress. 

Elizabeth gave us an example of English usage based on
a word used by Jimi!!! Are we really trying to codify
the English language based on such usages? Rather,
shouldn't we expect more of these anomolies (poetic
license)?

My comment that Porter hardly has taken a linguistic
approach, was not in reference to his system as a
whole, but the specific instance I mentioned. I have
learned much from Porter; he's clearly brilliant. I
just don't buy into his system. I will say this: I
looked at all his examples of 'future referring'
Aorists and am now more so convinced of the
grammatical tense of Greek than before I read his
Verbal Aspect. I simply don't see his argument as
being remotely valid.

Please do not take offense at my statement about
Porter. I did not want to imply he was not a linguist.
It is just that his linguistic approach to the Greek
verbal network to me is thoroughly unconvincing.

Eddie Mishoe
Pastor

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