[B-Greek] strange looking pi?

Curtis Hinson curtis at curtishinson.com
Mon Sep 25 21:14:10 EDT 2006


Granted, this (ie by Greek-speaking Jews for Greek-speaking people) is 
true of the LXX as it was used in ancient times.  But we're talking 
about some sort of modern edition here that may well have been put out 
by non-Greeks/non-Jews.  So was this edition picking up on an earlier 
convention, or what?  From a typological point of view there would need 
to be a reason you'd use two forms of the same character. Do today's 
Greeks mix in cursive form of PI in the middle of a block text while 
using the block form as well?  I have never witnessed that occurring, 
I'd expect one or the other but not both mixed randomly.

Concerning your given examples, I daresay there may have been a rhyme or 
reason for both phenomena, but I'm not equipped to comment on it.  
Although it's true scholarship can make up rules where the truth may be 
hard to pin down in a codified way, on the other hand we get places by 
asking those questions instead of shrugging them off.

Bless the Name
Curtis Hinson
http://curtishinson.com

frjsilver at optonline.net wrote the following on 9/25/2006 7:57 PM:
> It makes sense enough to the Greeks, and it is -- after all -- their 
> book:  a translation made by Greek-speaking Jews for Greek-speaking 
> people, most of whom have been orthodox Christians since the first 
> century.  If it doesn't bother them, why should it bother us?
>  
> I mean:  Consider the orthographic shifts from f-shaped internal 's' 
> to a single form in older English, or the inconsistent representation 
> of double 's' in Modern German.  These things are internal to these 
> languages, and need not 'make sense' to anyone else who doesn't speak 
> them or write them.
>  
> Father James Silver
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Curtis Hinson
> Date: Monday, September 25, 2006 8:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] strange looking pi?
> To: frjsilver at optonline.net
> Cc: Jim Darlack , B Greek , opoudjis at opoudjis.net
>
> > The mystery remains, why are both forms of PI used in the LXX
> > edition in
> > question? It doesn't seem to make sense, pragmatically or
> > linguistically.
> > Bless the Name
> > Curtis Hinson
> > http://curtishinson.com
> >
> > frjsilver at optonline.net wrote the following on 9/25/2006 6:59 PM:
> > > This is merely the way in which PI is written in cursive
> > script, even in Modern Greek.
> > >
> > > Father James Silver
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Curtis Hinson
> > > Date: Monday, September 25, 2006 7:45 pm
> > > Subject: Re: [B-Greek] strange looking pi?
> > > To: Jim Darlack , B Greek
> > > Cc: opoudjis at opoudjis.net
> > >
> > >
> > >> Well, this is fun and interesting. Perhaps this information
> > is
> > >> of interest:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/unicode/letters.html#lunatesigma
> > >>
> > >> This guy (Nick Nicholas) is a research linguist/programmer
> > for
> > >> TLG. The
> > >> information was of additional interest to me because some
> > months
> > >> back I
> > >> asked if anyone knew why Greek even has terminal and internal
> > >> forms of
> > >> Sigma, instead of having positional forms for all letters
> > like
> > >> Arabic,
> > >> or none at all, like English.
> > >>
> > >> Also Dr Nicholas seems to promote the use of monotonic so
> > that
> > >> makes him
> > >> cool in my book. :-D
> > >>
> > >> Bless the Name
> > >> Curtis Hinson
> > >> http://curtishinson.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Jim Darlack wrote the following on 9/25/2006 3:15 PM:
> > >>
> > >>> While looking at an old printed edition of the LXX, some
> > >>>
> > >> friends and I
> > >>
> > >>> came across a strange character that represents the letter pi.
> > >>>
> > >>> The character basically looks like a lowercase omega with a
> > >>>
> > >> line across
> > >>
> > >>> the top.
> > >>>
> > >>> See the jpeg here: http://www.oldinthenew.org/images/pi.jpg
> > >>>
> > >> (image of
> > >>
> > >>> Cardo font glyph U+03D6).
> > >>>
> > >>> As far as I can tell, there's no rhyme or reason why this
> > >>>
> > >> character is
> > >>
> > >>> used rather than the regular pi.
> > >>>
> > >>> For instance, both the traditional pi, and this other pi are
> > >>>
> > >> both used
> > >>
> > >>> in this scan (http://www.oldinthenew.org/images/pitxt.jpg).
> > >>>
> > >> Compare v.
> > >>
> > >>> 19 with the regular pi to vv. 26/27, 11 & 12 with the
> > strange
> > >>>
> > >> pi. The
> > >>
> > >>> strange pi is only used when it begins a word, but the
> > regular
> > >>>
> > >> pi is
> > >>
> > >>> used to begin a word as well. In 26/27, both characters are
> > >>>
> > >> used in the
> > >>
> > >>> same word - PROSWPA.
> > >>>
> > >>> Note also the strangely formed beta in the first line in
> > >>>
> > >> FOBHQENTHS and
> > >>
> > >>> the second gamma in ANAGGEILWSI.
> > >>>
> > >>> Curious,
> > >>>
> > >>> Jim
> > >>>
> > >>> ________________________________
> > >>>
> > >>> James M. Darlack
> > >>> Assistant Librarian for Reference & Bibliographic Instruction
> > >>> Goddard Library, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary
> > >>> 130 Essex Street, South Hamilton, MA 01982
> > >>> http://www.gordonconwell.edu/library/hamilton
> > >>>
> > >>> 978.646.4004 Phone - 978.646.4567 Fax
> > >>> ---
> > >>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> > >>> B-Greek mailing list
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> > >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
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