[B-Greek] Ephesians 1:13
Jason Hare
jaihare at gmail.com
Sat Sep 30 17:53:21 EDT 2006
On 9/30/06, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry" <nebarry at verizon.net>
> To: "'Nick Ashton'" <hisnibbs at ntlworld.com>; <Revdpickrel at wmconnect.com>
> Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Ephesians 1:13
>
> What Barry is saying is that the translations "after" or "when" are not based on the Greek preposition EN.
> Rather, it is standard in Greek that the event expressed by an aorist participle takes place before the main verb
> expressed in aorist. There are 75 instances of this construction in Matthew alone, and the example quoted by Barry is
> the only exception to the rule. This exception is based on a carry-over from a Semitic expression "having answered, he
> said". Since this is a special Semitic idiom, it cannot be used to determine the normal sense of the Greek "aorist
> participle followed by aorist indicative".
> So, from the Greek text alone, I would say that the translation "when" is probably misguided.
>
> You can benefit from looking at the NET Bible at www.bible.org, where they do translate by "when", but also has a note
> on what the Greek says in a more literal rendering: "Grk "in whom also having believed."
>
> Iver Larsen
> Bible translation consultant
>
Iver,
Even your example contradicts what you just said. Your statement was:
"it is standard in Greek that the event expressed by an aorist
participle takes place before the main verb expressed in aorist." This
would indicate that the answering in "having answered, he said" took
place before the saying itself. Does this even make sense? It is a
repetitive feature of Semitic language. I have not myself figured out
why Semitic language (Hebrew, in particular) uses such repetitive
verbs, but it is very common. The structure comes out in such phrases
as
DBR W)MRT )LYHM -- "Speak and say unto them"
WYDBR M$H )LYHM L)MR -- "Moses spoke unto them, saying"
There is no aorist in Hebrew, unless one counts the active participle
as a type of aorist. So, the structure cannot really be compared
directly to Hebrew, as I'm sure you know. Whereas this repetitiveness
may come from Semitic influence, the use of the aorist participle in
conjunction with an aorist main verb does not, and the meaning must be
drawn from the Greek structure itself.
Warm regards,
Jason
--
Jason A. Hare
jaihare at gmail.com
Joplin, Missouri
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