[B-Greek] CH Dodd quoting the Corpus Hermeticum

yancywsmith yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Sat Aug 4 07:29:55 EDT 2007


The translation I gave was strictly mine, so it has not hidden  
"authority." The Greek text was taken from  TLG. The "it" you are  
referring to is sometimes called "impersonal," but there is probably  
another label given to impersonal 3 p subjects of natural phenomena.  
Don't remember it at the moment.

Yancy and Lanette Smith
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
5636 Wedgworth Rd.
Fort Worth, TX 76133
817-361-7565




On Aug 3, 2007, at 8:56 PM, Stephen Baldwin wrote:

> Hello Yancy:
> Thanks for that additional input. Thanks too Dr. Conrad for your  
> response.
> So at least from the tranlsation from your book, the "it" (or 3rd  
> singular FANHSETAI) is the nebulous "it" per "it is raining" rather  
> than "he" referring to Hermes (ANTIFWNOS is masculine is it not?)  
> (Incidentally, just curious, does this kind of "it" [as in "it is  
> raining"] have a technical term?)
>
> This CH excerpt is quoted in Dodd (along with many others) as he  
> sets the Hellenistic background for his case for John (chapter  
> entitled Hermetic Literature.)
>
> Rgds
>
> Steve
>
> Stephen Baldwin
> stbaldwi at hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>> From: Yancy Smith <yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net>
>> Reply-To: Yancy Smith <yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] CH Dodd quoting the Corpus Hermeticum
>> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 14:08:18 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>> I sent this off list to Stephen, but thought it might help on  
>> getting a bit more context for the passage. The passage is from  
>> hOROI ASKLHPIOU PROS AMMWNA BASILE/A 1.1 A.-J. Festugière and  
>> A.D. Nock, Corpus Hermeticum, vol. 2. Paris: Les Belles Lettres,  
>> 1946 (repr. 1973):
>>
>> I don't have Dodd at the moment to check, but this is probably  
>> used to illuminate John 5:37-40, I guess?
>>
>> MEGAN SOI TON LOGON, W BASILEU, DIEPEMYAMHN PANTWN TWN ALLWN  
>> hWSPER KORUFHN KAI hUPOMNHMA, OU KATA THN TWN POLLWN DOXAN  
>> SUGKEIMENON, ECONTA DE POLLHN EKEINOIS ANTIDEIXIN: FANHSETAI GAR  
>> SOI KAI TOIS EMOIS ENIOIS LOGOIS ANTIFWNOS. hERMHS MEN GAR hO  
>> DIDASKALOS (5) MOU, POLLAKIS MOI DIALEGOMENOS KAI IDIAi KAI TOU  
>> TAT ENIOTE PARONTOS, ELEGEN hOTI DOXEI TOIS ENTUGCANOUSI MOU
>> TOIS BIBLIOIS hAPLOUSTATH EINAI hH SUNTAXIS KAI SAFHS, EK DE TWN  
>> ENANTIWN ASAFHS OUSA KAI KEKRUMMENON TON NOUN TWN LOGWN ECOUSA,  
>> KAI ETI ASAFESTATH, TWN hELLHNWN (10) hUSTERON BOULHQENTWN THN  
>> hHMETERAN DIALEKTON EIS THN IDIAN MEQERMHNEUSAI, OPER ESTAI TWN  
>> GEGRAMMENWN MEGISTH  DIASTROFH TE KAI ASAFEIA.
>>
>> O king, great is the message I published, it is like the crowning  
>> memorial of all the others, it is not, however, in agreement with  
>> the opinion of most people, and encounters great opposition among  
>> them. Indeed by some of my own words it will appear contradictory  
>> to you. For Hermes is my teacher. He often converses with me both  
>> alone and sometimes with [his son] Tat present, he said that the  
>> meaning [of the message] will be to those who find me in the books  
>> very simple  and straight forward, but from the contradictory  
>> things [they find] it will be unclear, indeed with the mind hidden  
>> from the words, and still most obscure, when the Greeks desire  
>> later to interpret our discussion for private use, it will become  
>> of things written the greatest distortion and obscurity.
>>
>>
>> Yancy Smith
>> yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
>> 5636 Wedgworth Rd.
>> Fort Worth, TX 76133
>> 817-361-7565
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 2, 2007, at 10:29 PM, Stephen Baldwin wrote:
>>
>>
>> Brethren:
>> continuing (from Schurer) my penchant for reading authors who make  
>> claims on
>> my modicum of greek knowledge, I was wondering whether someone  
>> might be kind
>> enough to clarify my elementary understanding.
>> Dodd ("...Fourth Gospel" p13) quotes the CH thus:
>> Asklepios to King Ammon: FANHSETAI GAR SOI KAI TOIS EMOIS ENIOIS  
>> LOGOIS
>> ANTIFWNOS
>>
>>
>> I originally looked at this and thought that Asklepios said "For  
>> it will be
>> visible (clear?) to you [that] also some of my words are  
>> contradictory" but
>> ANTIFWNOS is not modifying "some of my words" since it does not  
>> agree in
>> case and number.
>>
>>
>> I now think he is saying "...He (Hermes, the main author of the  
>> CH) will be
>> seen contradictory to you as well as some of my own  
>> words" (apologies for
>> the clumsy translation but I think you get the gist...).
>> That is, ANTIFWNOS is qualifying the implied 3S in FANHSETAI --  
>> correct?
>> Thus it is that both Hermes and Asklepios have contradictions in  
>> their
>> writings ("words" or whatever)...?
>>
>>
>> All corrections welcomed.
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Stephen Baldwin
>> stbaldwi at hotmail.com
>>
>>
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>>
>> Yancy and Lanette Smith
>> 5636 Wedgworth Rd.
>> Fort Worth, TX 76133
>> 817-361-7565  (home)
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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