[B-Greek] Third Person Form for Courtly Second Person Address inActs 26:26?
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Thu Dec 13 12:31:02 EST 2007
No, Douay-Rheims is not translating the Greek. It is entirely a translation from the Latin Vulgate.
george
gfsomsel
Therefore, O faithful Christian, search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
_________
----- Original Message ----
From: Webb Mealy <webb at selftest.net>
To: Biblical Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:22:28 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Third Person Form for Courtly Second Person Address inActs 26:26?
Dear Iver,
Perhaps TEV is indeed the only one that unambiguously takes that line. On
first look last night, I thought that Lattimore's rendering implied that
reading: "The King, to whom I speak openly, knows about these matters". That
made me prick up my ears because (1) he capitalized the word King, making me
wonder if L. was signaling that "the King" was equivalent to "Your Majesty",
and (2) Lattimore would be in a very good position to be sensitive to this
kind of nuance, being widely read in the Greek and Latin classics.
But I see that L. capitalizes "the King" later in the chapter and elsewhere,
and so capitalization is not a marker of this formal third-person address:
"Then the King and the governor and Bernice and those who had sat with them
got up..." (v. 30).
I've checked fifteen or sixteen other translations this morning, and none of
them takes it the way TEV does. I suppose the last step to rule that reading
out would be to check the Old Latin and the Vulgate. Vulgate has "scit enim
de his rex ad quem et constanter loquor latere enim eum nihil horum arbitror
neque enim in angulo quicquam horum gestum est", and Douay-Rheims looks
exactly like it's translating the Greek to me.
Webb Mealy
-----Original Message-----
From: Iver Larsen [mailto:iver_larsen at sil.org]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 11:34 PM
To: Webb Mealy; 'Biblical Greek'
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Third Person Form for Courtly Second Person Address
inActs 26:26?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Webb Mealy" <webb at selftest.net>
To: "'Biblical Greek'" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 13. december 2007 07:59
Subject: [B-Greek] Third Person Form for Courtly Second Person Address
inActs 26:26?
> EPISTATAI GAR PERI TOUTWN hO BASILEUS, PROS hON KAI PARRHSIAZOMENOS
LALW-OU
> GAR ESTIN EN GWNIAi PEPRAGMENON TOUTO (Acts 26:26)
>
> 26 And the king knows about these things, so I'm speaking openly to him.
> After all, I'm convinced that none of this has escaped his notice, since
it
> didn't happen in a corner. (SENT draft)
>
> I had taken v. 26 as a continuation of Paul's retort to Festus, who is not
a
> Jew. I thought Paul was addressing Festus and asserting that Festus didn't
> understand enough about internal Jewish affairs to get the weight of what
> Paul was saying. I then thought Paul in v. 27 turned to Agrippa for
support
> in his contention that his discourse made sense in a Jewish context. But
> some translations understand Paul as addressing Agrippa, the quasi-Jewish
> king, starting right in v. 26, so that "The king knows about these things"
> equals "You, O King, know about these things", and so on.
Is there any translation apart from TEV which assumes that Paul adresses
Agrippa in v. 26? This is
apparently a mistake in TEV which was corrected in the CEV. Since CEV was
done after the TEV, it has
corrected a number of the mistakes in the TEV. It may also have been
corrected in later versions of
TEV, I can't check now.
The GARs in the Greek and the vocatives are sufficient to indicate that not
until v. 27 does Paul
address Agrippa, even though he would have heard everything being said.
Iver Larsen
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