[B-Greek] Hebrews 1:1-2 EN
Alderman, Jim
jim.alderman at G3TP.com
Sat Dec 22 00:18:10 EST 2007
That is an interesting possibility I had not considered. The answer lies in the remaining context of the verses. One of the contrasts established by the parallel structure of these verses is that of time. The aorist of LALHSAS and the use of PALAI, denoting time past, put God speaking EN TOIS PROFHTAIS in the past contrasted to Him speaking EN hUIWi more contemporaneously with the author of Hebrews. If “in the books of the prophets” were intended, the contrast in time would be lost as God began speaking “in the books of the prophets” from the time they were written and has not stopped doing so through today.
I am not really trying to emphasize instrumentally, however. I’m happy picturing Metzger’s Geometric Arrangement of the Greek Prepositions with EN IN the middle of the cube. God could speak EN both the prophets and the Son because the Spirit of God was EN both the prophets (e.g. 2 Peter 1:21) and the Son (e.g. John 14:10).
While I phrased my original question improperly, I still think the context and the structure of these two verses suggest that the meaning of EN in both instances is the same, whether that be in, by or through.
Each pair of contrasting elements is established by the use of different Greek words and varying verb inflection: past vs. present, the fathers vs. us, the prophets vs. the Son and POLUMERWS KAI POLUTROPWS vs. nothing, i.e. not POLUMERWS KAI POLUTROPWS. If the author intended to also contrast the method by which God spoke, wouldn’t a change of preposition have been more consistent with the other contrasts in order to make this intent known?
James L. Alderman
Takton Systems, Inc.
Indianapolis, IN (USA)
Let all things be done decently and in order.
1 Corinthians 14:40
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From: George F Somsel [mailto:gfsomsel at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 8:03 AM
To: Alderman, Jim; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Hebrews 1:1-2 EN
Are you truly sure that the instances of EN in Heb 1.1-2 are instrumental? The author MAY have intended "through the persons of the prophets" or he may have intended "in the books of the prophets." Note Mk 1.2
Καθὼς γέγραπται ἐν τῷ Ἠσαΐᾳ τῷ προφήτῃ·1
KAQWS GEGRAPTAI EN TWi HSAIAi TWi PROFHTHi
Here the author appears to be referring to the work rather than the person of the prophet.
george
gfsomsel
Therefore, O faithful Christian, search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
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----- Original Message ----
From: "Alderman, Jim" <jim.alderman at G3TP.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:05:03 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Hebrews 1:1-2 EN
For many years Zondervan's Greek and English NT with Nestle's 21st and Rev. Marshall's literal translation, along with H.K. Moulton for parsing, met all of my needs. I was pleased with Marshall's accuracy, especially verb tenses. Recently, a Bible study group I lead began working Hebrews. We start, as always, with "what does it say" and after that is established move to "what does it mean." Marshall translated the EN of EN TOIS PROFHTAIS as "by" and of EN hUIWi as "in." I didn't really notice the difference until I made the sentence tree diagram of the first two verses that I referenced previously.
It seemed to me that I had found an uncommon instance of Marshall failing to achieve his stated goals of "avoiding interpretation" in favor of a "literal translation." Hence, I posed my question.
George F Somsel wrote:
> Consider the case of Mt 2.1
>
> Τοῦ δὲ Ἰησοῦ γεννηθέντος ἐν Βηθλέεμ τῆς Ἰουδαίας ἐν ἡμέραις Ἡρῴδου
> τοῦ βασιλέως
>
> TOU DE IHSOU GENNHQENTOS EN BHQLEEM THS IOUDAIAS EN hHMERAIS hHRWiDOU
> TOU BASILEWS
>
> Here we have the same preposition repeated as in Heb 1.1-2 about which you > ask. Would you understand the first EN in the same manner as the second?
I understand the first EN to involve the locality of place and the second the notion of time while both occurrences of EN in Heb. 1:1-2 are instrumental.
James L. Alderman
Takton Systems, Inc.
Indianapolis, IN (USA)
Let all things be done decently and in order.
1 Corinthians 14:40
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