[B-Greek] Heb. 1.7: PNEUMATA-FLOGA

Elizabeth Kline kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Tue Feb 6 00:46:23 EST 2007


On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:42 PM, Tavi Baban wrote:

> I would like to consult you on translating Hebrews 1.7:
>
> KAI PROS MEN TOUS AGGELOUS LEGEI,
> O POION TOUS AGGELOUS AUTOU PNEUMATA
> KAI TOUS LEITOURGOUS AUTOU PUROS FLOGA
>
> Do you think that PNEUMATA here should be translated with "spirits"  
> or with "winds", due to the paralelism with PUROS FLOGA at the end  
> of the verse?
>
> I.e., the author had in mind to emphasize the fact that God is  
> making angels and servants out of winds and, respectively, fire  
> flames, or that he, God, is exercizing a creator-to-creature  
> authority over angels, turning them into winds or into fire, when  
> needed, or that he is making the angels so that they might be  
> either spirits or elements of nature, like fire, whilst the son of  
> God, is described in different terms, as an eternal, everlasting  
> ruler (vs. 8)?
>

Octavian,

It appears that your question isn't really: Do you think that  
PNEUMATA here should be translated with "spirits" or with "winds"  
your i.e. ... takes us in a different direction.

In regard to the first question, C.Koester (Hebrews AB) wants to tie  
PNEUMATA in v.7 with PNEUMATA in v.14 and translate them both  
spirits. This is a minority reading.

Your other question is more difficult. A quote from F.F. Bruce (NICNT  
Hebrews p.18) "The latin version of the IV Esra (II Esdras) 8:21f.,  
where Ezra addresses  God as One 'before whom the hosts of angels  
stand trembling, they whose service takes the form of wind and fire'.  
But another interpretation is indicated by the Syriac and other  
eastern versions ... God is One 'before whom the hosts of angels  
stand trembling and at whose command they are changed into wind and  
fire'".

Now the question before us on b-greek is what linguistic evidence  
from Hebrews can be brought to bear on this question. Certainly  
someone can cite a rule of some sort that would bear on this issue.  
Frankly after reading everything I have on hand concerning this I am  
currently an agnostic on this topic. I don't know the answer.


Elizabeth Kline

BTW, don't go looking for the greek original of IV Esra (II Esdras)  
8:21f.
If the names of Ezra, Esdras has you baffled, look in the SBL  
Handbook of Style page 167 where there is a table which makes it all  
very clear.






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