[B-Greek] hHMEIS DE hWS ADOKIMOI WMEN, 2 Cor. 13:7
Webb
webb at selftest.net
Thu Feb 8 12:41:49 EST 2007
Dear George,
Do you have a proposed reading of the passage? How do you understand the
function and meaning of DOKIMOS/ADOKIMOS in this passage?
Webb
_____
From: George F Somsel [mailto:gfsomsel at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:10 AM
To: Carl W. Conrad; Webb
Cc: B-Greek
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [B-Greek] hHMEIS DE hWS ADOKIMOI WMEN, 2 Cor.
13:7
The problem here is that although there is some evidence of use of DOKIMOS
in the sense of "acceptable" (and thereby its contrary ADOKIMOS as
"unacceptable"), this is not a usage which I have found attested at this
time. All such uses I've encountered are much earlier. I am reminded of
the AV translation of MAKELLON in 1 Cor 10.25 by the word "shambles." Today
if we were to speak of a shambles, we would not have in mind a meat market.
george
gfsomsel
_________
----- Original Message ----
From: Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
To: Webb <webb at selftest.net>
Cc: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2007 8:44:55 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] hHMEIS DE hWS ADOKIMOI WMEN, 2 Cor. 13:7
On Feb 7, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Webb wrote:
> EUCOMEQA DE PROS TON QEON MH POIHSAI hUMAS KAKON MHDEN
> OUC hINA hHMEIS DOKIMOI FANWMEN, ALL hINA hUMEIS TO KALON POIHTE
> hHMEIS DE hWS ADOKIMOI WMEN
>
> I'd like to rule out the possibility that this essentially means,
>
> And we're praying to God that you won't do anything wrong - not so
> that
> we'll appear to be accepted by you, but so that you'll do the right
> thing -
> even if that means rejecting us.
>
> NRSV, followed in essence by most English versions, has, "not that
> we may
> appear to have met the test, but that you may do what is right,
> though we
> may seem to have failed".
> This one is susceptible of the reading I am trying to rule out, but
> it more
> probably means, "you'll do the right thing despite the appearance
> that we've
> failed".
>
> Lattimore has, "not so that we may appear worthy, but so that you
> may do
> what is good and we may be, as it were, the unworthy ones".
> This is interesting, because it sounds like the sort of thing Paul
> might
> well say. "I don't care if we come out looking like fools, as long
> as you
> come out ok".
>
> Any comments?
Everybody's jumping to respond to this, huh? I'm the first, after 12
hours have passed! I suppose that may mean that others are every bit
as uncomfortable with this passage as are Webb and myself. Well,
inasmuch as "comments" have been requested, that's what I'll offer.
In the first place, it is my conviction that, important as this
letter is for so many reasons, its interpretation should remain open
to revision by any serious interpreter unless and until a whole slew
of questions have been resolved. That the letter is a composite of
multiple letters seems to me a given: that raises the question of its
composition history and also the question of what was said by the
opposing party to whom these letters are responses. If one doesn't
think this is a composite letter, then other questions will come up.
The sum of it all is that one of the major problems of the letter to
the Galatians (What did the other party say to evoke the response we
read? What is to be understood between the lines of the present
communication?) multiplied "to the power of X" (yes, where I live in
the mountains I must rely on satellite radio because I can't even get
a cell phone or wireless internet yet).
It seems to me that the crux of the question in this particular text
is the intended sense of DOKIMOS. I think that BDAG is probably right
in its listing of the range of possible senses:
1. pert. to being genuine on the basis of testing, approved (by
test), tried and true, genuine
2. pert. to being considered worthy of high regard, respected, esteemed
3. pert. to being valuable, precious
I am inclined to think that sense #2 is closer to what's meant in 2
Cor 13:7 than the others -- that our concern here is with "face" --
with how one "looks" to others with whom one is dealing. I also am
inclined to think that the adjective is close in sense to a usage of
the verb DOKEW that we see in Gal 2:6-7 APO DE TWN DOKOUNTWN EINAI TI
-- hOPOIOI POTE HSAN OUDEN MOI DIAFEREI; PROSWPON [hO] QEOS OU
LAMBANEI -- EMOI GAR hOI DOKOUNTES OUDEN PROSANEQENTO ...
I think there's almost a colloquial force to the adjective DOKIMOS
and its opposed ADOKIMOS -- not in other NT instances where these
words appear, but in this particular passage. And it seems to me too
that the hWS that qualifies ADOKIMOI in the final clause of our
passage weakens -- a little -- the negative force of the adjective:
"somewhat faceless" or "somewhat out of favor."
In that light, I suggest (very, very tentatively):
Text: EUCOMEQA DE PROS TON QEON MH POIHSAI hUMAS KAKON MHDEN OUC hINA
hHMEIS DOKIMOI FANWMEN, ALL hINA hUMEIS TO KALON POIHTE hHMEIS DE
hWS ADOKIMOI WMEN
"And I entreat you by god not to do anything wrong, not so I myself
can save face, but so that YOU yourselves do the right thing and I
lose face to some extent.
I'm assuming that the hINA clauses here really are all purpose
clauses, although it seems to me that OUC hINA ... WMEN may be more a
matter of result (NT Koine Greek has more or less erased any clear
distinction between purpose and result constructions). I think that
my version above can be read with that want of distinction between
purpose and result evident.
End of comment.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
---
B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
B-Greek mailing list
B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
_____
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse
<http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE4MGw4Z2hlBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2B
HNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW5jZW50ZXI-> Top Cars by "Green Rating" at
Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list