[B-Greek] Middle voice and passive construction

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Feb 9 05:37:38 EST 2007


On Feb 9, 2007, at 1:21 AM, David E. Kiefer, Registrar wrote:

> You're quite right that Greek textbooks tend to oversimplify the  
> concept
> of "deponent," though you are also overgeneralizing the meaning of
> middle voice when you say "it affects me."
>
> Many "deponent verbs" are intransitive (have no object), like  
> POREUOMAI,
> which is often not far from middle in meaning. For example, in  
> English,
> a verb like "wash" can be transitive, e.g. "I washed something," but
> when intransitive it is reflexive (just one meaning of middle voice),
> e.g. "I washed."
>
> Greek textbooks and teachers often oversimplify "deponent" by simply
> saying "middle or passive forms, but active meanings." In my own
> textbook, I describe eight different manifestations or categories of
> so-called "deponent" verbs.

The term "deponent verb" and "deponency" are more detrimental than  
useful. One needs to understand the morphology of the middle-passive  
(both the MAI/SAI/TAI;MHN/SO/TO forms and the -QH-) forms and the  
diverse types of middle verbs; it would be better to speak of middle  
verbs that are essentially intransitive (verbs like POREUOMAI), verbs  
that are essentially middle and that indicate a process of change  
through which the subject is passing (GINOMAI), verbs that indicate  
process undergone by the subject but that also have active causative  
forms (EGEIROMAI/EGEIRW; hISTAMAI/hISTHMI) -- generally with  
intransitive "second" aorists (HGERQHN, ESTHN), and truly transitive  
verbs that have a first-aorist middle indicating self-interested  
actions. One really needs to understand the Aktionsart of individual  
verbs; perhaps that's what you're referring to, but the terms  
"deponent" and "deponency" really should be dispensed with  
altogether, inasmuch as they seem to imply such verbs are less than  
regular.

>
> Andy Kaylor wrote:
>> I'm in the very early stages of trying to learn Greek on my own  
>> from Bill Mounce's book (I just finished with indicative verbs),  
>> so whatever I say is likely to be full of misconceptions.  That  
>> said, the middle voice really makes a lot of intuitive sense to  
>> me.  I can understand it (as much as I understand anything), even  
>> if I can't represent it in English.
>>
>> In fact, as I've been working through Mounce's book, it has at  
>> times struck me that things he calls deponent make sense to me as  
>> middle. For instance, POREUOMAI he says is deponent and therefore  
>> simply means "I go" (or proceed or live or whatever else) as  
>> though it were purely active, but it's obvious that when I go it  
>> affects me.
>>
>> And so, if I've got this right, it seems to me that just as many  
>> prepositions make more sense if I picture them spacially than if I  
>> try to memorize a list of their English equivalents, verbs make  
>> more sense if I try to understand them from within the shoes of  
>> the subject than if I try to picture them in an English sentence,  
>> particularly with the middle voice.
>>
>> Of course, all of this is from the perspective of someone who has  
>> to take a minute to figure out the meaning of a simple nominative  
>> subject, indicative verb, accusative direct object sentence.  My  
>> opinion may change when I get to the point of being able to read  
>> and comprehend with any speed.
>>
>>
>> Andy Kaylor
>> Beaverton, Oregon
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: JFS <bigjfs at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: [B-Greek] Middle voice and passive construction
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________ 
>> _______________
>> Have a burning question?
>> Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who  
>> know.
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
>> B-Greek mailing list
>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> __________________________
>
> David E. Kiefer, Registrar
> Fuller Theological Seminary
> 135 N Oakland Ave
> Pasadena, CA  91182
>
> dkiefer at fuller.edu
> Phone 626-584-5409
> Fax   626-584-5564	
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/





More information about the B-Greek mailing list