[B-Greek] Relative time of participles

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sun Feb 11 21:19:46 EST 2007


Don't worry about the page references.  I forgot that there is a decent index of scripture quotations in the back of the book so I've found it.
 
george
gfsomsel
_________



----- Original Message ----
From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
To: Bert de Haan <b_dehaan at sympatico.ca>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 8:57:53 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Relative time of participles


Do you have any page numbers so I can look up these things? 

 
george
gfsomsel
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: Bert de Haan <b_dehaan at sympatico.ca>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 8:53:45 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Relative time of participles


>Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 21:33:17 +0000
>From: "Bert de Haan" <b_dehaan at sympatico.ca>
>Subject: [B-Greek] Relative time of participles
>To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Message-ID: <BAY15-F18433DCF3F74CBF2365A9A8B930 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>In his book "An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek"   C.F.D. Moule writes
>concerning the time relationship between a participle and the main verb:
>[quote] "When the context positively demands a decision as to the
>sequence of the actions referred to in the participle and the main verb
>respectively, it often turns out that a Present Participle alludes to an
>action with which the action of the main verb coincides (at least in part),
>while an Aorist Participle refers to action previous to what is referred to
>in the main verb.  Consequently, the 'schoolboy' translation of an
>Aorist Participle by <having done so-and-so>,  though entirely false to the
>essential meaning of an Aorist as such, turns out to be a fair 
>approximation
>to the to the sense in its context more often than it deserves
>to." [/quote]
>A bit later he writes that this 'schoolboy'  rule may even be safer for
>N.T. Greek than for the Classical writers.
>He lists a few exceptions (all the ones he knows of,) to this principle. 
>(HE
>called it principle.)
>
>He writes all this after he explains the difference in aspect between the
>different tenses so I assume that that is what he is referring to when he
>writes; 'essential meaning of an Aorist as such.'
>
>My question is;  Why would he call it entirely false?  If it works that
>often, wouldn't there be more than coincidence at play here? It seems to
>me that the authors may well have intentionally written a participle in a
>particular tense to indicate relative time as well as aspect.
>Any thoughts?
>
>Bert de Haan
>

Some one suggested to me off-list (thank you) to make the question more 
specific by including some examples.  I don't mind doing that but the 
examples are not my point.  My point was that he   can only find one clear 
exception and one that is debatable.
Acts 25:13, KATHNTHSAN EIS KAISARIAN ASPASAMENOI TON FHSTON.  He says that 
assuming that the aorist participle is the correct reading this would be an 
exception.
Acts 12 :25, BARNABAS KAI SAULOS hUPESTREYAN EX IEROUSALHM PLHRWSANTES THN 
DIAKONIAN,  He wrote; If EIS and not EX were demonstrably the right reading 
this verse would be and exception.
I am not out to prove Moule wrong or right, I just would like to get a 
better understanding of the participles.
Bert de Haan
---
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