[B-Greek] Jn 2:25 AUTOS DE IHSOUS OUK EPISTEUEN AUTON AUTOIS
Iver Larsen
iver_larsen at sil.org
Thu Feb 22 03:10:13 EST 2007
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
>
> On Feb 20, 2007, at 4:20 PM, Webb wrote:
>
>> You're right, as far as you go. But "believing in" somebody/
>> somebody's name
>> is not just "doing something" in their name. Normally, doing
>> something "in
>> somebody's name" is a simple metonymy for "by/on their authority".
>> But if
>> we're talking about things like "singing praises to God's name" or
>> "believing in Jesus' name", AND the name itself expresses something
>> praiseworthy or worthy of belief, then a "surplus" sense
>> potentially comes
>> into play. Then one can be praising that aspect of God's character
>> which is
>> named by God's name, or believing that about Jesus which his name
>> expresses.
>> Such a nuance wouldn't be the base meaning, but it could be an
>> overtone, so
>> to speak. And John is a master of overtones.
>
> I'm at a total loss to know what the difference between "singing
> praises to God's name" and "singing praises to God" might be. I am
> equally at a loss to understand what the difference might be between
> "believing in Jesus" and "believing in Jesus' name."
"Singing praises to God's name" is pretty meaningless, because it is Biblish rather than English.
Similarly "believing in Jesus' name" is not English, because we don't use the idiom with "name" as
it is used in the Bible.
> I personally think that by PISTEUEIN EIS TO ONOMA IHSOU the
> evangelist means the same thing as PISTEUEIN EIS TON IHSOUN -- or
> PISTEUEIN TWi IHSOU.
Well, I think there may be a difference between them, but it depends on context. PISTEUEIN EIS TON
IHSOUN only occurs once in the NT and PISTEUEIN TWi IHSOU never. However, PISTEUEIN EIS ME or
PISTEUEIN MOI does occur several times with the sense "trust me".
Two issues have been discussed in this thread. One is the semantic range of PISTEUW, the other is
the meaning of EIS TO ONOMA.
For the semantic range of PISTEUW, I agree that "believe" in English does not cover the whole range.
In the African language I have worked the most in, we use three different words to cover the range
of meaning of this one Greek word. They correspond to "accept as true", "respond positively to and
act upon" and "trust completely in a person". Because of the semantic range of this important word,
a translation cannot at the same time be fully concordant and also faithful to the intended meaning.
Wayne, I don't think you can translate with the same word for PISTEUW in John 2:22, 23 and 24. At
least we used three different words in our Danish version. (In the African language I mentioned, we
used the same word in 22 and 23, but a different one in 24.)
PISTEUW is a key word in John's Gospel. He uses the word three times as often as the other three
gospels combined. (John - 96, Matt - 11, Mark - 14, Luk - 9). The reason is that John has a very
specific purpose of his gospel as stated in
Jhn 20:31 TAUTA DE GEGRAPTAI hINA PISTEUSHTE hOTI IHSOUS ESTIN hO CRISTOS hO hUIOS TOU QEOU
Here two things must be accepted as true: That Jesus is the Messiah and that he is the Son of God.
This idea is mentioned several times before in John, but usually in a shortened form as in:
1:12 PISTEUEIN EIS TO ONOMA AUTOU
1:50 PISTEUEIS? (See the statement of belief in v. 49)
2:11 EPISTEUSAN EIS AUTON (because of the miracles, they believed he was the Messiah, Son of God.)
2:23 EPISTEUSAN EIS TO ONOMA AUTOU (seeing the signs)
3:18 MH PEPISTEUKEN EIS TO ONOMA TOU MONOGENOUS hUIOU TOU QEOU
(Here the genitive specifies and clarifies the sense of ONOMA. To believe in the name means more
specifically to believe that Jesus is the one and only son of God).
3:36 hO PISTEUWN EIS TON hUION
4:39 POLLOI EPISTEUSAN EIS AUTON (because of the things/miracles he did)
4:41 EPISTEUSAN DIA TON LOGON AUTOU
6:69 hHMEIS PEPISTEUKAMEN KAI EGNWKAMEN hOTI SU EI hO hAGIOS TOU QEOU
7:5 OUDE GAR hOI ADELFOI AUTOU EPISTEUON EIS AUTON
(The brothers of Jesus had no reason to consider Jesus dishonest or not trustworthy, but they could
not accept him to be the Son of God or the Messiah)
9:35 SU PISTEUEIS EIS TON hUION TOU ANQRWPOU? (The title Son of Man does not refer to the humanity
of Jesus, but is a Messianic title derived from Dan 7:13-14.)
12:11 EPISTEUON EIS TON IHSOUN (That Jesus was who he claimed to be, the son of God and the Messiah)
16:9 hOTI OU PISTEUOUSIN EIS ME (That I am the Son of God and the Messiah)
16:27,30 PEPISTEUKATE hOTI EGW PARA QEOU EXHLQON
17:21 hINA hO KOSMOS PISTEUHi hOTI SU ME APESTEILAS
20:8 EIDEN KAI EPISTEUSEN (That Jesus had to be the Messiah, the Son of God)
In the Danish version, we often express this concept as "come to faith in". Of course, there are
other senses of PISTEUW, and I have not listed all the 96 instances and the various senses in
different contexts. Any translation ought to be highly context sensitive.
Iver Larsen
Translation Consultant
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