[B-Greek] Jn 2:25 AUTOS DE IHSOUS OUK EPISTEUEN AUTON AUTOIS
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Feb 22 15:32:24 EST 2007
On Feb 22, 2007, at 3:09 PM, Webb wrote:
> FWIW,
> I don't think "entrusting yourself to someone" is identical to
> "trusting someone". In Greek (see BDAG PISTEUW, def. 3), as in
> English, the former involves giving someone else concrete say-so on
> matters that directly impinge on you. For example, I entrust myself
> to a cab driver when I take a cab. I entrust myself to a surgeon
> when I agree to undergo surgery. Depending on my religious
> tradition, I may entrust myself to a spiritual director or pastor
> or leader. You probably wouldn't entrust yourself to someone you
> didn't trust, but "I trust the cab driver" and "I entrust myself to
> the cab driver" are two different statements. The latter is about
> giving the person some kind of power of decision and/or action in
> relation to me. It's about choosing to submit yourself to someone
> else's influence in one way or another.
> So I think that in Jn 2:25, John is saying, roughly, that lots of
> people were enthusiastic about Jesus, but he wasn't giving in to
> being influenced by their enthusiasm. As I mentioned in an earlier
> post, I think a similar decision not to allow himself to be
> influenced by others' enthusiasm about him is narrated in Jn 6:15.
Sorry, but I continue to be doubtful about this argument. You seem to
be wanting to say that Jesus didn't trust the FAITH of these people,
but that really isn't what the text says.
John 6:15 seems different to me in any case: there he knows exactly
what these people are going to do and he takes steps immediately to
move away from them. There's no such movement in 2:23-25. In fact the
phrasing is quite specific there: Jesus knew human nature perfectly
well and didn't need to be told about it by anyone else: he just
didn't trust these people, didn't BELIEVE them, didn't BELIEVE what
they were saying when they declared their faith in him. He didn't
commit himself to them, didn't TRUST them.
As for the surgeon and the taxi driver, I can understand what is
meant by "putting oneself in the surgeon's care" -- but I'm not sure
that's the same thing as putting one's money in the surgeon's bank or
putting one's life in the taxi driver's hands. Does one TRUST the
surgeon or the taxi driver -- to bring one safely through the
operation or to bring one to one's destination in the backwaters of a
big city?
In sum, we are told in John 2:23-25 that, while Jesus was in
Jerusalem for the Passover lots of people professed faith in him, but
he didn't believe them because he knew what people are like -- they
make professions such as these without really committing themselves.
And I don't think 2:25 tells us anything more than that Jesus didn't
believe those who professed faith in him. I don't think there's any
notion whatsoever of Jesus putting himself into the power of these
would-be believers.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl W. Conrad [mailto:cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 5:08 AM
> To: Webb
> Cc: 'Wayne Leman'; 'B-Greek'
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Jn 2:25 AUTOS DE IHSOUS OUK EPISTEUEN AUTON
> AUTOIS
>
>
> On Feb 20, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Webb wrote:
>
>> I think something significant drops out if one translates AUTOS DE
>> IHSOUS
>> OUK EPISTEUEN AUTON AUTOIS as "Jesus didn't trust them. I would
>> render it:
>>
>> "But Jesus himself wasn't entrusting himself to them."
>> Or maybe, in order to remove the stylistic clumsiness of the two
>> instances
>> of "himself":
>> "But as for Jesus, he wasn't entrusting himself to them."
>
> I've been puzzling over this for several days now. It must
> unquestionably mean "wasn't entrusting himself to them," mustn't it?
>
> Jarring as it is, the problem with this locution doesn't lie in usage
> of AUTON for hEAUTON; the rough breathing was no longer pronounced, I
> think, and the EAU had long been pronounced AU -- so presumably even
> if it were written as hEAUTON there would be no differentiation in
> pronunciation of hEAUTON and AUTON.
>
> My problem is rather with the intended sense of the locuation OUK
> EPISTEUEN AUTON AUTOIS.
>
> Considering alternatives from what BDAG indicates, I find:
>
> 1. to consider someth. to be true and therefore worthy of one’s
> trust, believe
> c. w. pers. and thing added π. τινί τι believe someone with
> regard to someth. (X., Apol. 15 MHDE TAUTA EIKHi PISTEUSHTE TWi QEWi)
> Hm 6, 2, 6.—W. dat. of pers. and ὅτι foll. (ApcEsdr 4:35 p. 29,
> 12 Tdf.): PISTEUETE MOI hOTI EGW EN TWi PATRI J 14:11a. Cp. 4:21; Ac
> 27:25.
>
> 2. to entrust oneself to an entity in complete confidence, believe
> (in), trust, w. implication of total commitment to the one who is
> trusted.
> (several usages indicated here, including (a) dative of person, (b)
> with EIS and acc. of person, (c) with EPI and dat. of person, (d)
> with EN and dat. of person, (e) absolute, i.e. without a complement.
>
> 3. entrust TINI TI someth. to someone
> Here we find AUTON (so N. and Tdf.; v.l. hEAUTON) TINI trust oneself
> to someone (Brutus, Ep. 25; Plut., Mor. 181d ANDRI MALLON AGAQWi
> PISTEUSAS hEAUTON H OCURWi TOPWi=entrusting himself to a good man
> rather than to a stronghold; EpArist 270; Jos., Ant. 12, 396) J 2:24
> (EStauffer, CDodd Festschr., ’56, 281–99.—Diod. S. 34 + 35 fgm.
> 39a OU TOIS TUCOUSI FILOIS hEAUTON EPISTEUSEN=he did not trust
> himself to casual friends).
> Also here is Pass. PISTEUOMAI TI (B-D-F §159, 4) I am entrusted with
> something.
>
> What I'm having trouble understanding here is how the locution (BDAG
> #3) with the reflexive pronoun (hEAUTON PISTEUEIN TINI) is different
> in meaning from locution (BDAG #2) with all those alternative modes
> of indicating the complement of PISTEUEIN. That is to say, I'm
> wondering whether there is a real semantic difference between OUK
> EPISTEUEN AUTON AUTOIS and OUK EPISTEUEN AUTOIS. I'm wondering
> whether BOTH expressions don't really mean the same thing, namely,
> "he did not put his trust in them."
>
> And even IF there's an intent to emphasize that these Jerusalemites
> are dangerous and could very well turn on him and bring about his
> death, would that sense be less clearly indicated if our texts simply
> said OUK EPISTEUEN AUTOIS? Using BDAG #2 we could English this as "he
> would not entrust himself to them in complete confidence."
>
> The locution strikes me as somewhat fishy.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
>
>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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