[B-Greek] John 18:37

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Mon Jan 8 01:25:18 EST 2007


Here is one place where I think LSJ is preferable to BDAG even for the NT.  
 
I. in questions, inviting assent to an inference, or to an addition to what has already received assent, OUKOUN DOKEI ..; you think then, do you not, that ..? X.Cyr.2.4.15, Mem.1.4.5, cf. 4.2.20. Pl.Prt.332b, 360b–d, Cra.416c, etc.: with hortatory subj., OUKOU KAI ALLOUS SE FWMEN DUNATON EINAI POIEIN (sc. hRHTORAS AGAQOUS); Id.Grg.449b: folld. by οὐ when a neg. answer is invited, OUKOU OUK AN EIH TO MH LUPEISQIA POTE TAUTON TWi XAIREIN; Id.Phlb.43d, cf. Phd.105e; OUKOUN OUD' AN hEIS ANTEIPOI; D.16.4.

Liddell, H. G., Scott, R., Jones, H. S., & McKenzie, R. (1996). A Greek-English lexicon. "With a revised supplement, 1996." (Rev. and augm. throughout) (1270). Oxford; New York: Clarendon Press; Oxford University Press.


Xenophon, _Cyropaedia_, 2.4.15

KAI hO KUACARHS EIPE, "KAI EGW, EFH, ELPIZW EKEINOUS ELQEIN AN PROS SE MALLON H PROS EME.  AKOUW GAR KAI SUNQHREUTAS TINAS TWN PAIDWN SOI GENESQAI AUTOU, hWST' ISWS AN KAI PALIN ELQOIEN PROS SE; hUPOXEIRIWN DE GENOMENWN AUTWN PANTA PRAXQEIH AN H hHMEIS BOULOMEQA OUKOUN SOI DOKEI?"  

EFH hO KUROS, "SUMFORON EINAI TO LELHQENAI hHMAS TAUTA BOULEUONTAS?"

"MALLON GAR AN," EFH hO KUACARHS, "KAI ELQOI TIS AUTWN EIS XEIRAS, KAI EI TIS hORMWiTO EP' AUTOUS, APARASKEUASTOI AN LAMBANOINTO."

In this case, I'm going to provide you with the translation (not my own, this is from Perseus though I don't know who translated it.  The other passages cited in LSJ can also be found at Perseus http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cache/perscoll_Greco-Roman.html

“I also have hopes,” Cyaxares replied, “that they would come to you sooner than to me; for I understand that some of his sons were among your companions in the chase; and so, perhaps, they would join you again. And if they should fall into your hands, everything would be accomplished as we wish.” 

“Well then,” said Cyrus, “do you think it good policy to have this plan of ours kept a secret?” 

“Yes, indeed,” said Cyaxares, “for then some of them would be more likely to fall into our hands, and besides, if one were to attack them, they would be taken unprepared.” 

  
george
gfsomsel
_________



----- Original Message ----
From: David Rollins <david87350 at earthlink.net>
To: bgreek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2007 12:37:03 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] John 18:37


18:37    EIPEN OUN AUTW O PILATOS, OUKOUN BASILEUS EI SU ; APEKRIQH O  
IHSOUS, SU LEGEIS OTI BASILEUS EIMI.  EGW EIS TOUTO GEGENNHMAI KAI  
EIS TOUTO ELHLUQA EIS TON KOSMON, INA MARTURHSW TH ALHQEINAS

This exchange between Pilate and Jesus has always seemed odd to me  
because it seems so stilted.  My range of reading in greek is limited  
to the NT, LXX, and a limited amount of other attic and koine  
sources.  I'm sure someone else on the list can point to an example  
from other texts of how this conversation should read.  The OUKOUN  
( not therefore ?) is used only here in the NT and is puzzling to  
me.  Everyone I have read reads it as , "So, you are a king..."  Is  
there another example of this kind of use somewhere else?  Why does  
Jesus respond SU LEGEIS OTI BASILEUS EIMI  with a sort of ( to me at  
least) indirect answer?  Obviously I am not familiar with this kind  
of conversation. What are the nuances behind the words?

David Rollins
---
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