[B-Greek] EN + human locative of sphere
Wayne Leman
wayne_leman at sil.org
Tue Jan 9 01:41:34 EST 2007
>
> On Jan 8, 2007, at 3:52 PM, Wayne Leman wrote:
>
>> I am unaware that a non-human can have the
>> same semantic role as XRISTW or KURIW.
>
> Wayne,
>
> Could you elaborate on this semantic role?
I can try. And I think you've caught the fact that human is not really what
I should have said. I don't know precisely what the semantic role is of
XRISTW or KURIW when they are the objects of EN. After posting my last
message I got to wondering if some inanimate objects have the same semantic
role that is the object of my interest, e.g. EN TH SARKI in Rom. 7:5. I
think I was taught that all of the objects of these EN phrases that interest
me are locatives of sphere. But I'm not happy with that label. To me, it's
not too much more than a label. I don't get any semantic explanation from
it. And now Carl complicates matters even more--properly so--by suggesting
that these may not be locatives at all, but, rather datives. In any case (so
to speak, of course), I want to understand them better, whatever they are.
The ones that particularly interest me are very difficult to translate to
natural English, and, as a translator, that piques my interest. They often
have an overt or ellipsized verb of being, rather than an active verb
associated with them.
>
> Jn 17:20 OU PERI TOUTWN DE ERWTW MONON, ALLA KAI PERI TWN PISTEUONTWN DIA
> TOU LOGOU AUTWN EIS EME, 21 hINA PANTES hEN WSIN, KAQWS SU, PATER, EN
> EMOI KAGW EN SOI, hINA KAI AUTOI EN hHMIN WSIN, hINA hO KOSMOS PISTEUHi
> hOTI SU ME APESTEILAS.
>
> The referent of PATER in SU, PATER, EN EMOI KAGW EN SOI is non-human in
> the same way that EN TWi DII is non-human. Could we exchange "person"
> for "human" so we could included PATER and ZEUS?
Yes, and I suspect even "person" will have to be exchanged for something
broader to include examples such as EN TH SARKI.
> Would that cause a problem for your project?
No, not at all. I would just like to know a couple of things:
1. Were these "natural" constructions in Greek, not just formations limited
to N.T. authors? Would anyone have ever referred to someone as being EN
KAISARI? If so, what would it have meant? I'd hope that we could get clues
from such extrabiblical exx. to be able to understand the semantics of the
biblical exx. better.
2. What was the semantic role of the object of these EN phrases? I
understand true locative phrases. I understand clear instrumental phrases.
But I don't understand these EN + "whatever" phrases. Sure, I've read a fair
amount on them by exegetes and theologians, but I don't find the
theologizing satisfying as a linguist. I'd like to understand their meaning
better without reference to theology, esp. if they were forms that were
uttered outside of theological contexts.
Wayne
----
Wayne Leman
Better Bibles Blog:
http://englishbibles.blogspot.com
>
> Elizabeth Kline
>
>
>
>
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