[B-Greek] Questions about NT verbal aspect
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Fri Jan 19 13:41:18 EST 2007
Understanding what an author is saying grammatically is somewhat different from developing a comprehensive body of doctrine based on the authors' statements. We attempt to avoid entering into the latter activity on this list so I won't make any comments regarding that. Of course, everyone knows that the position of my group is the only correct one ! [Well, isn't that what each group thinks?] <grin>
george
gfsomsel
_________
----- Original Message ----
From: Anthony Buzzard <anthonybuzzard at mindspring.com>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>; Randall Buth <ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Cc: Randall Buth <ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:20:48 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Questions about NT verbal aspect
George, your comment about simplicity makes me
ponder then what has happened to produce (I am
told) 35,000 different denominations all in some
way appealing to the same Bible!
The problem seems to lie elsewhere than in the
intelligent communication of our NT writers, who
I am sure wrote to be understood!
Anthony Buzzard
At 12:20 PM 1/19/2007, George F Somsel wrote:
>Apparently it's not only the linguists who have
>difficulty communicating, it seems I didn't make
>myself sufficiently clear. I was not directing
>my comments regarding lack of clarity and
>failure to communicate at either James or
>Jonathan. It is simply my contention that
>linguists attempt to make to whole process
>entirely too complicated. The people who spoke
>Greek in the first centuries of this era were
>not geniuses. Though a few undoubtedly were
>geniuses as today we have a few. Most, however,
>were just ordinary people "like you and like me
>and I mean to be one too" [forget the last part
>of that, it's a line from the hymnal]. Language
>could not have been too difficult to comprehend
>so that one needed a secret decoder ring to
>discover what it meant. Even though the
>possibility existed of being quite precise,
>there were undoubtedly many who mangled
>Alexander's Greek just as today they mangle the
>Queen's English. What it needs is the KISS treatment [Keep It Simple,
> Stupid].
>
>george
>gfsomsel
>_________
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Randall Buth <ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il>
>To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Cc: Randall Buth <ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il>
>Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 5:17:08 AM
>Subject: [B-Greek] Questions about NT verbal aspect
>
>
>George's comments may illustrate why all people can successfully
>learn languages through usage, but most often get tied up in knots
>when trying to enter a language through analysis.
>
>On the other hand, I found James' and Jonathan's comment rather clear
>and straightforward.
>I would encourage any student to approach the question with the
>following ATTITUDE:
>
>"These people are trying to describe something very simple and very
>basic, something that is part of every language system. If the words
>for the description are new or fuzzy, they will become clear through
>usage of the language.
>Yes, it is as simple and basic as the difference between 'I walked to
>the store' versus 'I was walking to the store,' as between 'to walk'
>and 'to be walking'.
>Of course, Greeks use this distinction in places where English
>speakers may not. Every language is idiomatic in that regard. Greek
>is concerned with having this difference marked whenever a verb is
>used, while English often ignores the distinction as 'not worth the
>bother'. English speakers might simply say 'to walk' where a Greek
>might prefer 'to be walking'."
>
>Please note, the above does not answer the question with a list of
>specific situations for each usage, it refers to the ATTITUDE. This
>is basic, this is easy. Often, the knowledge that the category is
>something easy and basic removes stress from the language learner,
>who can then proceed, knowing that in due time, 'just around the
>corner', everything will be clear.
>
>Example: students often puzzle over words like LABE 'take', ANASTHQI
>'get up', DOS, 'give', when these are presented within a 'grammar-
>translation' framework (=grammar-translation is the framework that
>99% of Greek courses are taught in. They ask themselves, 'what is
>aoristic about LABE and DOS' [or LABEIN and DOUNAI]?' and typically
>start off confused, taking LAMBANE and DIDOU as somehow more basic
>because they were usually presented first, [and LAMBANEIN and
>DIDONAI].) Fortunately, if students hear and use these inside the
>classroom, LABE and DOS become 'normal' words for 'give' and 'take'
>and understandable. They become friends before they are introduced
>with their 'last name' "aorist". When the students later meet and
>learn that there are words like LAMBANE 'be taking' and DIDOU 'be
>giving', they pick up a natural increment in meaning in a new context
>where something more open-ended is being referred to. How do you
>think little children pick up this distinction? It's not rocket-
>science, as they say. Afterwards, the distinction and overall system
>can be presented with a lower experience of stress. And they start to
>'internalize' the distinction. They are actually building a different
>kind of gridwork inside their heads, almost the same, but 'wired
>differently'. You're all welcomed to a summer ELLHNIKH scholé if
>interested. (Teachers should write specific emails if interested in
>visiting.)
>
>Randall Buth
>Biblical Language Center
>randallbuth at gmail.com
>www.biblicalulpan.org
>
>
>
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>
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Anthony Buzzard
www.restorationfellowship.org
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