[B-Greek] "Sunday School Greek"
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Jan 23 15:40:23 EST 2007
On Jan 23, 2007, at 3:18 PM, Stephen Baldwin wrote:
> I for one am delighted to read this post since David's situation
> and his goals closely resemble my own.
> Those on the list who have been able to devote their lives to our
> subject need to understand that many of us either cannot or have
> not (I am a late-comer). The attitude that it is an all-or-nothing
> game is simply false and implies a kind of "gnostic" secrecy and
> does indeed smack of elitism. There are many legitimate reasons for
> learning Koine greek -- it depends on one's goals. And I would
> encourage everyone to learn as much as they can with whatever
> mental apparatus they've been given. A dose of humility will keep
> us learners circumspect about our knowledge -- and this forum is
> good for exposing weakenesses. To be honest, some of the attitudes
> on b-greek have brought me to the point of quitting in
> discouragement. (But instead I've decided to grow thick skin and
> slog on.) Surely the scholars here want to encourage people to
> learn the subject?
This is all that I have ever urged. My warning has been simply that
short-cuts don't get you where you want to go if you're at all
serious about reading NT Greek. What is required is perseverance and
effort: as you put it, "slog on!" If interlinears can HELP you work
toward reading the text on your own, make use of them; I'm prepared
to accept that some will make such use of them even if others rely
upon them as a crutch and don't "slog on" toward achieving a reading
ability of some sort.
> (The world is hardly in danger of being flooded with Koine
> enthusiasts is it?)
> A bit of encouragement and constructive advice is much better than
> negative pessimism for those who cannot devote 100% of their lives
> to this pursuit or who want to give "lay" people a brief overview
> -- who knows what fires of interest will be kindled in the day of
> small things?
>
> So, to David and the rest of us learners, let us all keep going.
> To the scholars: thanks for your help and patience and presence
> here -- it is what makes this forum impressive. I'm grateful to be
> here!
>
> Greetings to everyone!
> Steve
>
>
> Stephen Baldwin
> stbaldwi at hotmail.com
>
>
>> From: "David Opderbeck" <dopderbeck at gmail.com>
>> To: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
>> CC: B-Greek B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>,suzanne mccarthy
>> <suzmccarth at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] "Sunday School Greek"
>> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:52:32 -0500
>>
>> Let me offer the perspective of one who is just starting to try to
>> learn
>> some Greek as a lay person. I have no pretension of being able to do
>> serious original translation work based on the study to which I'm
>> able to
>> commit (I do, after all, have a family and a day job). What I
>> hope to
>> achieve in the near term, however, is enough facility that when I
>> read a
>> serious Bible commentary or journal article that deals with the
>> Greek text,
>> I at least have some idea what the author is talking about.
>> Already I'm
>> delighted that I've learned the alphabet so I can read words
>> written in
>> Greek, that I've picked up a bit of vocabulary, and that I've
>> learned enough
>> about the case endings of nouns to know what a commentary means
>> when it
>> mentions that a word is in the genetive, etc. Just this little
>> bit of
>> insight gives me a better feel for the primary scholarship that I
>> rely on in
>> my personal Bible study and lay church work. Some day, perhaps,
>> I'll have
>> the opportunity for more intense study in a seminary setting, and
>> then at
>> least I'll be able to hit the ground running. But for now, to me,
>> a "Sunday
>> School" level of language study seems a very reasonable and valuable
>> pursuit, which could benefit anyone who is serious about studying and
>> applying the Bible but who is not called or situated to pursue
>> full-time
>> professional scholarship.
>>
>>
>> On 1/23/07, Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Suzanne McCarthy, some of whose previous posts in the blogosphere I
>> > have noted in this forum, has a piece that she posted Sunday on the
>> > Better Bibles Blog with the rubric I have indicated in my subject-
>> > header above
>> > (http://englishbibles.blogspot.com/2007/01/sunday-school-
>> greek.html)
>> >
>> > I am reluctant to stir the pot again regarding the whole
>> pedagogical
>> > quick-fix methodologies for acquiring enough Greek to confront the
>> > Biblical Greek text in a meaningful and fruitful way, but it's
>> not as
>> > if the topic is going to go away, while human nature remains
>> what it
>> > is. The comment I appended to Suzanne's blog-post follows:
>> > ----
>> > I shake my head, old curmudgeon that I am and a retired
>> > professor of Greek whose last classroom experience was a January
>> 20-
>> > session crash course in Biblical Greek for seminary students. Of my
>> > 13 students two did quite well, considering the nature and
>> > limitations of the course. But these were seminary students who had
>> > to have this course to get into the school's first exegesis
>> class. I
>> > agree with Peter [Peter Kirk, who posted a previous comment]
>> that the
>> > dedicated student with application and industry can make a very
>> > significant start within a short time, but very few are likely to
>> > succeed -- precisely because the application and industry required
>> > are just not there. Aside from that, whatever is accomplished,
>> be it
>> > in three successive days, once a week, or in the course of one
>> month,
>> > is only a beginning and the beginner needs to be aware that the
>> > beginning demands an ongoing commitment. Anything less really
>> > deserves -- I think -- disparagment. What Euclid (I think) said of
>> > geometry is certainly as true for Biblical Greek: "There is no
>> royal
>> > road ... "
>> >
>> > Carl W. Conrad
>> > Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>> > 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>> > cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> > WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
>> > B-Greek mailing list
>> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David W. Opderbeck
>> Web: http://www.davidopderbeck.com
>> Blog: http://www.davidopderbeck.com/throughaglass.html
>> MySpace (Music): http://www.myspace.com/davidbecke
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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