[B-Greek] "Sunday School Greek"

David Opderbeck dopderbeck at gmail.com
Tue Jan 23 15:44:22 EST 2007


Thank you Carl.  If nothing else, I for one am a "slogger.'  I look forward
to learning from you all!

On 1/23/07, Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 23, 2007, at 3:18 PM, Stephen Baldwin wrote:
>
> > I for one am delighted to read this post since David's situation
> > and his goals closely resemble my own.
> > Those on the list who have been able to devote their lives to our
> > subject need to understand that many of us either cannot or have
> > not (I am a late-comer). The attitude that it is an all-or-nothing
> > game is simply false and implies a kind of "gnostic" secrecy and
> > does indeed smack of elitism. There are many legitimate reasons for
> > learning Koine greek -- it depends on one's goals. And I would
> > encourage everyone to learn as much as they can with whatever
> > mental apparatus they've been given. A dose of humility will keep
> > us learners circumspect about our knowledge -- and this forum is
> > good for exposing weakenesses. To be honest, some of the attitudes
> > on b-greek have brought me to the point of quitting in
> > discouragement. (But instead I've decided to grow thick skin and
> > slog on.) Surely the scholars here want to encourage people to
> > learn the subject?
>
> This is all that I have ever urged. My warning has been simply that
> short-cuts don't get you where you want to go if you're at all
> serious about reading NT Greek. What is required is perseverance and
> effort: as you put it, "slog on!" If interlinears can HELP you work
> toward reading the text on your own, make use of them; I'm prepared
> to accept that some will make such use of them even if others rely
> upon them as a crutch and don't "slog on" toward achieving a reading
> ability of some sort.
>
> > (The world is hardly in danger of being flooded with Koine
> > enthusiasts is it?)
> > A bit of encouragement and constructive advice is much better than
> > negative pessimism for those who cannot devote 100% of their lives
> > to this pursuit or who want to give "lay" people a brief overview
> > -- who knows what fires of interest will be kindled in the day of
> > small things?
> >
> > So, to David and the rest of us learners, let us all keep going.
> > To the scholars: thanks for your help and patience and presence
> > here -- it is what makes this forum impressive. I'm grateful to be
> > here!
> >
> > Greetings to everyone!
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > Stephen Baldwin
> > stbaldwi at hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >> From: "David Opderbeck" <dopderbeck at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> >> CC: B-Greek B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>,suzanne mccarthy
> >> <suzmccarth at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] "Sunday School Greek"
> >> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:52:32 -0500
> >>
> >> Let me offer the perspective of one who is just starting to try to
> >> learn
> >> some Greek as a lay person.  I have no pretension of being able to do
> >> serious original translation work based on the study to which I'm
> >> able to
> >> commit (I do, after all, have a family and a day job).  What I
> >> hope to
> >> achieve in the near term, however, is enough facility that when I
> >> read a
> >> serious Bible commentary or journal article that deals with the
> >> Greek text,
> >> I at least have some idea what the author is talking about.
> >> Already I'm
> >> delighted that I've learned the alphabet so I can read words
> >> written in
> >> Greek, that I've picked up a bit of vocabulary, and that I've
> >> learned enough
> >> about the case endings of nouns to know what a commentary means
> >> when it
> >> mentions that a word is in the genetive, etc.  Just this little
> >> bit of
> >> insight gives me a better feel for the primary scholarship that I
> >> rely on in
> >> my personal Bible study and lay church work.  Some day, perhaps,
> >> I'll have
> >> the opportunity for more intense study in a seminary setting, and
> >> then at
> >> least I'll be able to hit the ground running.  But for now, to me,
> >> a "Sunday
> >> School" level of language study seems a very reasonable and valuable
> >> pursuit, which could benefit anyone who is serious about studying and
> >> applying the Bible but who is not called or situated to pursue
> >> full-time
> >> professional scholarship.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/23/07, Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Suzanne McCarthy, some of whose previous posts in the blogosphere I
> >> > have noted in this forum, has a piece that she posted Sunday on the
> >> > Better Bibles Blog with the rubric I have indicated in my subject-
> >> > header above
> >> > (http://englishbibles.blogspot.com/2007/01/sunday-school-
> >> greek.html)
> >> >
> >> > I am reluctant to stir the pot again regarding the whole
> >> pedagogical
> >> > quick-fix methodologies for acquiring enough Greek to confront the
> >> > Biblical Greek text in a meaningful and fruitful way, but it's
> >> not as
> >> > if the topic is going to go away, while human nature remains
> >> what it
> >> > is. The comment I appended to Suzanne's blog-post follows:
> >> > ----
> >> >     I shake my head, old curmudgeon that I am and a retired
> >> > professor of Greek whose last classroom experience was a January
> >> 20-
> >> > session crash course in Biblical Greek for seminary students. Of my
> >> > 13 students two did quite well, considering the nature and
> >> > limitations of the course. But these were seminary students who had
> >> > to have this course to get into the school's first exegesis
> >> class. I
> >> > agree with Peter [Peter Kirk, who posted a previous comment]
> >> that the
> >> > dedicated student with application and industry can make a very
> >> > significant start within a short time, but very few are likely to
> >> > succeed -- precisely because the application and industry required
> >> > are just not there. Aside from that, whatever is accomplished,
> >> be it
> >> > in three successive days, once a week, or in the course of one
> >> month,
> >> > is only a beginning and the beginner needs to be aware that the
> >> > beginning demands an ongoing commitment. Anything less really
> >> > deserves -- I think -- disparagment. What Euclid (I think) said of
> >> > geometry is certainly as true for Biblical Greek: "There is no
> >> royal
> >> > road ... "
> >> >
> >> > Carl W. Conrad
> >> > Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> >> > 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> >> > cwconrad2 at mac.com
> >> > WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> >> > B-Greek mailing list
> >> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> >> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> David W. Opderbeck
> >> Web:  http://www.davidopderbeck.com
> >> Blog:  http://www.davidopderbeck.com/throughaglass.html
> >> MySpace (Music):  http://www.myspace.com/davidbecke
> >> ---
> >> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> >> B-Greek mailing list
> >> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
>


-- 
David W. Opderbeck
Web:  http://www.davidopderbeck.com
Blog:  http://www.davidopderbeck.com/throughaglass.html
MySpace (Music):  http://www.myspace.com/davidbecke



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