[B-Greek] "Sunday School Greek"

David Opderbeck dopderbeck at gmail.com
Tue Jan 23 17:20:01 EST 2007


*As
for the challenges of being proficient, we don't really have to
resort to brain surgery as an analogy; simple G.P. medicine will do.
It's not an issue of elitism, but of practicality. We non-MD's like
to read what we can of medical sources and do our own diagnoses, and
it's fun when we guess right.*

Just when things seemed to be getting reasonable...   IMHO, this is a
nonsense analogy, really an arrogant and infuriating analogy, and the
comment earlier that it smacks of Gnosticism is dead on.  The Bible is not a
codebook that only the elite can decipher, and the Church is not supposed to
be a community in which only the elite can impart insights to the (us) poor
unwashed ignoramouses in the pews.  Yes, of course, the Church is greatly
served by the very, very few who can devote a lifetime to language study,
and yes, of course, the vast majority of the rest of us who can't do that
have to be humble and realistic about what our efforts at language study can
achieve.  In the body of Christ, we are ALL called to study, understand and
apply the scriptures as best we can.



On 1/23/07, Dr. Don Wilkins <drdwilkins at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> This and the other posts on the issue are very good, and as Carl
> said, this is not an issue that is going to go away. I heartily agree
> with the advice that 3 semesters or so might be useful for making
> sense of the commentaries and spotting mistakes by those who use
> Greek in preaching. You also find that most devotional books and
> other books on practical issues (e.g. dealing with x, y, or z,
> finding God's purpose for you, etc. etc.) make mistakes about the
> Greek or Hebrew (or theology), often basing arguments or principles
> on those mistakes. So everywhere you walk potentially is thin ice. As
> for the challenges of being proficient, we don't really have to
> resort to brain surgery as an analogy; simple G.P. medicine will do.
> It's not an issue of elitism, but of practicality. We non-MD's like
> to read what we can of medical sources and do our own diagnoses, and
> it's fun when we guess right. But only a fool disregards professional
> medical advice. Often the doctors who give it need to run tests and
> do their own research before deciding on a diagnosis and course of
> treatment, and laymen are not equipped to do the same thing.
>
> So if some facets of Bible interpretation require many years of study
> in the languages, why are so many authors and preachers who address
> these facets without the requisite training and tools so successful?
> Partly because the damage they do is spiritual and difficult to
> detect. And partly because the public has no agreed-upon means of
> separating the competent from the incompetent. For them, figuring out
> who's right and who's wrong is like choosing a diet. When they try
> one and it doesn't work, the logic for that diet becomes meaningless
> and they just move on to the next. In spiritual matters or counseling
> issues, sometimes a preacher or author stumbles on to the right
> advice for the wrong reason, and that adds to the confusion.
>
> I think an answer to the problem, or at least a good starting point,
> would be for Christian colleges/universities and especially
> seminaries to acknowledge the training that is really necessary for
> competent exegesis, and stop giving the impression that 3 or 4
> semesters in Greek will do it just because this happens to be the
> curriculum that they are willing to offer and the students are
> willing to take. We certainly wouldn't permit this if we took
> biblical issues as seriously as we took medical issues. And when you
> think about it, as important as medical care is to us, the body in
> this life is only temporary, the spirit is eternal.
>
> BTW, like physicians, even experts in the languages are not always
> right, and the best ones know when they don't know. I join Eric and
> others in recommending Carson's book on fallacies. For extra fun, try
> to spot Carson's errors.
>
> Don Wilkins, Ph.D.
>
> > My first-year Greek teacher said that after 3 semesters (i.e.,
> > first-year Greek, plus an
> >   exegesis/translation course), one should be able to interact
> > intelligently (or begin to do so)
> >   with commentaries and books that reference the Greek. I think he
> > was correct. We used
> >   Mounce for that first year of Greek. Of course, at that level one
> > should often defer to the
> >   wisdom of the commentators and not use such ability to find and
> > pronounce one's own
> >   interpretations of the Greek if they are contrary to what the
> > consensus of commentaries is.
> >   And one year of Greek, IMO, is only enough for one to embarrass
> > one's self in the pulpit
> >   should there be a Greek-knowledgeable person in the pews!
> >
> >   My two cents to accomplish the ability to use some discernment
> > and understanding of the
> >   Greek NT along the lines of what you want, and if your resources
> > and time are limited:
> >
> >   Set yourself to take the equivalent of 2 years of Greek, maybe
> > working through Daniel
> >   Wallace's grammar for your second year - a workbook with
> > exercises is now available - go to
> >   Zondervan.com and look for this: A Workbook for New Testament
> > Syntax - Companion to
> >   Basics of New Testament Syntax and Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics.
> >
> >   I agree with Carl Conrad that N. Clayton Croy's A Primer of
> > Biblical Greek grammar looks
> >   like a good choice for first-year Greek, and it's inexpensive,
> > but it lacks the tools of Mounce.
> >   You also need to up your vocabulary to every word that occurs 20x
> > or more (Mounce only
> >   teaches 50x or more). Croy introduces you to the Septuagint as
> > well (but so do some of
> >   Mounce's exercises in his first-year Greek book/course). For $31
> > or so you can by Brenton's
> >   diglot Septuagint (Greek text with English translation on the
> > side) if you need help with the
> >   translation of the exercises, or go online to find a Greek LXX.
> >
> >   (One of my favorites is J. Lyle Story GREEK TO ME, but it's
> > getting close to $200 now for
> >   all the materials if you include the cost of a Greek New
> > Testament. But one can do self-
> >   study with it with the audio-visual CD, and it's great for
> > vocabulary and grammar acquisition if
> >   the picture-memory method works for you.)
> >
> >   After you've had 2 years of Greek, or during your 2nd year, read
> > D. A. Carson EXEGETICAL
> >   FALLACIES so you'll know what mistakes NOT to make.
> >
> >   After this, you will then be in good shape to do what you hope to
> > be able to do, and will
> >   likely know Greek better than many in the pulpit who let their
> > Greek slide after leaving
> >   seminary.
> >
> >
> > Eric S. Weiss
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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-- 
David W. Opderbeck
Web:  http://www.davidopderbeck.com
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