[B-Greek] PROSCWMEN and ORQOI
frjsilver at optonline.net
frjsilver at optonline.net
Fri Jun 15 08:38:32 EDT 2007
Both these words are addressed by the deacons to the congregation, whose minds might be wandering....[[;-D33
PROSCWMEN is indeed 'aor. subj. 1 pl. in the hortatory sense': 'Let us pay attention!'
There is a sort of collapse of two SIGMATA into one between PROS and SCWMEN; I agree that this is a matter of orthography's following pronunciation.
ORQOI is a substantive, 1PL M of ORQOS 'erect, upright'. I've always read it as en elliptical expression, shorthand for something which might include, say, STWMEN. I translate it just as elliptically as a liturgical rubric : 'Upright!'
Since it is NOT assumed that people would have been sitting when this directive is given, it seems that ORQOI is actually more of a moral posture.
Father James Silver
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl W.Conrad"
Date: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:25 am
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] PROSCWMEN and ORQOI
To: Eric Weiss
Cc: b-greek
>
> On Jun 15, 2007, at 5:56 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jun 14, 2007, at 10:04 PM, Eric Weiss wrote:
> >
> >> Two words from John Chrysostom's Divine Liturgy:
> >>
> >> PROSCWMEN - Let us be attentive
> >> ORQOI - (Let us?) Arise
> >>
> >> Does PROSCWMEN come from PROSECW?
> >
> > Unquestionably; one might expect two sigmas: PROS-SCWMEN -- it's
> > aorist subj. 1 sg. in the hortatory sense;
>
> Make that aor. subj. 1 pl. in the hortatory sense.
>
> > this verb was originally
> > used with the acc. object NOUN or plur. NOUS: "direct (one's) mind,"
> > and very early came to be used without the object in the sense "pay
> > attention (to)."
> >
> >> ORQOI seems to come from ORQOW.
> >
> > I think this is more likely the nom. pl. of ORQOS/H/ON used
> with an
> > implicit hortatory subjunctive like ANASTWMEN (ANISTAMAI/ANESTHN).
> > Compare Acts 14:10 EIPEN MEGALHi FWNHi: ANASTHQI EPI TOUS
> PODAS SOU
> > ORQOS!
> >
> > Or you might compare the liturgical Latin phrase SURSUM CORDA, lit.
> > "hearts upward" but usually in English it's "Lift up your hearts."
> >
> >> Are these subjunctives, imperatives, optatives, or what?
> >>
> >> What is the morphological explanation of these endings, and where
> >> are they on
> >> charts or in, e.g., Smyth?
> >
> > These are not Classical but ecclesiastical Greek expressions; the
> > only thing, however, that strikes me as odd is the
> simplification of
> > the double sigma into a single sigma; that's probably a matter of
> > spelling reflecting pronunciation.
> >
> >
> > Carl W. Conrad
> > Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> > 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> > cwconrad2 at mac.com
> > WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> >
> >
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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