[B-Greek] "Saved you" or "made you well"?

Charlie c.arnoldjr at worldnet.att.net
Sat Jun 23 12:04:30 EDT 2007


I find your comments are always helpful and offered in a humble Christian
way.

Charles P. Arnold, Jr.
----- Original Message -----
From: <frjsilver at optonline.net>
To: "Hahn, Joshua R." <HahnJoshua at bfdp.com>
Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] "Saved you" or "made you well"?


> Dear Friends --
> There's a natural tendency in Christian translators to keep the notion of
'salvation' fairly high on the list of possible renderings for SWTHRIA, but
this is occasionally problematic.
> SWZW -- just like Latin _salvare_  and English 'save' -- has a very wide
range of meanings in Greek, even in sacred scripture and other religious
texts.   This can go all the way from SOS to our hope for a blessed eternal
destination.
> While I don't always agree with Father Ephrem Lash's take on things, he
hits far more than he misses, and he's one of our most productive modern
translators of liturgical Greek into English.
> Here's a little of what he has to say about our present question:
> '...the greater the translator’s knowledge of the relevant languages, the
greater the difficulty of translation. This is because the translator knows
how much is being missed, how many nuances of meaning just cannot be
conveyed in the translation. To solve this problem translators adopt various
devices, of which the most obvious is that of paraphrase in the manner of
the Revised English Bible. If liturgical texts are one of the principal
means by which the truths of the Faith are handed on, if they are one of the
principal vehicles of the Tradition, then translations must be as precise
and accurate as possible. One technique, which was used by some ancient
translators of Greek into Syriac, is to use two words for one in the
original. This solution has been adopted in the Litany of Peace in the new
translation of the Liturgy.
> Ὑπὲρ πλεόντων, ὁδοιπορούντων, νοσούντων, καμνόντων, αἰχμαλώτων καὶ τῆς
σωτηρίας αὐτῶν.
> hUPER PLEONTWN hODOIPOROUNTWN NOSOUNTWN KAMNONTWN AICMALWNTWN
> KAI THS SWTHRIAS AUTWN
> TOU KURIOU DEHQWMEN
> Here the word σωτηρία SWTHRIA refers primarily to physical safety, but
since the Greek word, and its Slavonic equivalent, also means ‘salvation’ in
the theological sense, we decided, unlike previous translators, who simply
put ‘salvation’, to put both words in our version.'
> 'For those who travel by land and sea (and air), for the sick and the
suffering, for those in captivity, and for their safety and salvation, let
us pray to the Lord.'
> (quoted with slight adaptations from:
http://www.anastasis.org.uk/TransLit02.pdf
> where Archimandrite Ephrem's entire essay on liturgical translation. can
be read)
>
> As you can imagine, it's also very possible, perhaps even desirable to
'spiritualize' concepts such as illness and captivity;  we metaphorize them
all the time in sermons and moral exhortations.
>
> The fact remains, though, that we ought to dust off Occam's Razor once in
a while and go for the _lectio facilior_, generally letting the words just
be themselves and glossing them only in commentary, not in direct
translation.
>
> Yet even as I write this, I can think of exceptions I'd probably make,
maybe for EXOMOLOGEO(MAI), e.g.
>
> 'A FOOLISH consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds,' quoth Emerson
(emphasis added).
>
> But that's why God made footnotes, right?
>
> Peace and blessings to all.
>
> Father James Silver
>
> Monk James
> Orthodox Church in America
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hahn, Joshua R."
> Date: Friday, June 22, 2007 3:57 pm
> Subject: [B-Greek] "Saved you" or "made you well"?
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> > I have a quick question for the group. I am not an experienced Greek
> > scholar though I've had a couple of semesters. In Mark 10:52
> > the Greek
> > appears to say "Your faith has saved you" instead of the NASB
> > "has made
> > you well" or the NIV "has healed you".
> >
> > Am I correct in reading this verse? Any insights would be
> > appreciated.
> > Joshua
> > ---
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