[B-Greek] Luke 5:1 Infinitive of purpose introduced by KAI

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Jun 28 08:43:58 EDT 2007


All right, I'll bite! We are dealing with a construction in NT Koine  
that has me totally confounded while others don't seem to be  
knowledgeable and free from any serious doubt about the question. I'm  
hoping I can learn something new about NT Koine grammar (there is  
certainly more about it that I DON'T know than that I DO!) and I have  
myself been arguing that the much-touted principle that we must  
understand NT Greek grammar synchronically is a delusion in that this  
is a language very much in flux. But I just don't understand this  
business of KAI used to indicate that an infinitive following it is  
to be understood as an infinitive of purpose. I can see that MT and  
TR (and Codex Bezae too) read TOU AKOUEIN, and it is evidently  
assumed that this was a clarifying improvement of an original KAI  
AKOUEIN that really meant the same thing. Or is it rather the case  
that editors and translators really believe that TOU AKOUEIN is the  
original text? I don't know. But I would like to see some answers to  
a couple questions: perhaps others can learn something here along  
with me.


On Jun 26, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
> The second infinitive clause KAI AKOUEIN TON LOGON TOU QEOU could be
> understood as a statement of purpose and not a second argument for EN
> TWi.


> On Jun 26, 2007, at 11:05 PM, Elizabeth Kline expanded and clarified:

>> The use of KAI to introduce final/consecutive clauses is treated in
>> the standard grammars.

I know that an infinitive may function without any hWSTE or EIS TO  
introductory element to indicate purpose, especially after a verb of  
motion, BUT is it assumed that an infinitive by itself is equivalent  
to a final/consecutive CLAUSE?

>> The most lucid is Zerwick:1963 #455gamma who
>> cites Lk5:1 as an example.

I don't have Zerwick and I can't find anything comparable to this in  
any of the grammars that I have. For that reason I ask:
(a) What are the other standard grammars that deal with this  
construction; do they really illuminate Lk 5:1 KAI AKOUEIN?
(b) Can any parallels to this understanding of KAI AKOUEIN from LXX  
or GNT be adduced?

>> It really doesn't matter if we accept the
>> suggestion that this reflects the usage of the Hebrew VAV (WAW) or a
>> pattern borrowed from the LXX. If you want to think of this as
>> generic Hellenistic Greek, showing examples from papyri, that is  
>> fine.

I'd like to know of any parallels to be adduced. If it's argued as a  
construction in earlier Greek, however rare, I'd like to know that  
too (I confess to being surprised and enlightened about usage of EN +  
dative in an instrumental sense in Classical Attic, so this too may  
be one of those many things that I just didn't know).

>>
>> 01 EGENETO DE EN TWi
>> TON OCLON EPIKEISQAI AUTWi
>> KAI AKOUEIN TON LOGON TOU QEOU
>> KAI AUTOS HN ESTWS PARA THN LIMNHN GENNHSARET,
>> KAI EIDEN DUO PLOIA ESTWTA PARA THN LIMNHN
>> OI DE ALIEIS AP AUTWN APOBANTES
>> EPLUNON TA DIKTUA
>>
>> A verb of motion EPIKEISQAI is often followed by a purpose/results
>> clause. This semantic progression is common enough that it creates
>> what might be called a constraint on how we read KAI AKOUEIN TON
>> LOGON TOU QEOU. In other words we expect a volitial action to be goal
>> driven and when the KAI AKOUEIN TON LOGON TOU QEOU follows it answers
>> this expectation.


> On Jun 27, 2007, at 7:10 AM, Carl W. Conrad responded:
>>
>> I'm not sure I'd call EPIKEISQAI in this instance a verb of motion (I
>> take it that the sense here is "crowd closely" -- I gather that the
>> sense here is pretty much the same as in Mark 4:1 ... KAI SUNAGETAI
>> PROS AUTON OCLOS PLEISTOS; BDAG offers quite a range of meanings for
>> EPIKEIMAI -- at any rate it seems to me that the usage here is a far
>> cry from something like EDRAMON APAGGEILAI in Matthew's account of
>> the women at the tomb in 28:8 KAI APELQOUSAI TACU APO TOU MNHMEIOU
>> META FOBOU KAI CARAS MEGALHS EDRAMON APAGGEILAI TOIS MAQHTAIS  
>> AUTOU.).


On Jun 27, 2007, at 2:57 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:

> Carl,
>
> I agree that EN TWi TON OCLON EPIKEISQAI AUTWi KAI AKOUEIN TON LOGON
> TOU QEOU is functioning as a circumstantial clause. The question is
> about the internal structure within the circumstantial clause. Your
> proposal is both plausible and perhaps the most satisfactory way to
> read this text. However, there are several reasons to at least
> consider another option.
>
> The majority text reads TOU AKOUEIN for KAI AKOUEIN. How do we
> explain the MT reading? Did the replacement of KAI by TOU arise from
> a desire to remove ambiguity in the syntax? Does TOU AKOUEIN remove
> ambiguity?

It is certainly not impossible that TOU AKOUEIN was the original  
text. My problem remains that of understanding how KAI AKOUEIN can  
mean the same thing as TOU AKOUEIN in the sequence of Lk 5:1.

>
> Why do the RSV, NRSV, NET bible, TEV all render KAI/TOU AKOUEIN TON
> LOGON TOU QEOU "to hear [listen to TEV] the word of God." Did Bruce
> Metzger and others like him choose to follow the majority text at
> this point?

I'm not impressed by the numbers of translations that translate thus;  
what I want to know is
(a) whether they're translating the TR or MT or whether they are  
translating the eclectic text of NA27/UBS4; and
(b) IF they're translating the eclectic text, what justification have  
they for understanding KAI AKOUEIN as they do?

> See also Louw & Nida 19.43 "while the people pushed their
> way to him to listen to the word of God" Lk 5:1.

Since they cite the text as that of the eclectic text, it's evident  
that they are interpreting KAI AKOUEIN that way; but here too my  
question is: with what justification are they doing that?

>
> Without finding any explicit discussion of the KAI/TOU AKOUEIN in Lk
> 5:1 one can only speculate about why the translation committees for
> the RSV/NRSV used "to hear the word of God" for KAI AKOUEIN TON LOGON
> TOU QEOU. This is just another example of how reverse engeineering of
> an English translation is a slippery path.

Do you think that's what the translators may have been engaged in?  
I'm amused that our questions on B-Greek are often focused precisely  
on how such-and-such a version can render such and such a Greek  
phrase THAT way. And although this is not a forum for discussion of  
translations, there's much to be learned by exploring the REASONS why  
the translators have rendered a Greek text as they have. In this  
instance I haven't yet seen any convincing reasons why
EN TWi TON OCLON EPIKEISQAI AUTWi KAI AKOUEIN TON LOGON TOU QEOU  
should be understood to mean "as the crowd pressed in on him IN ORDER  
to hear the word of God" rather than "as the crowd pressed in on him  
and was listening to the word of God."

>
> Carl wrote:
>>  It seems to me that the KAI consecutive clause here is KAI AUTOS
>> HN hESTWS PARA THN LIMNHN. This is a pretty standard construction
>> in Luke and Acts (BDAG s.v. GINOMAI 4.f).
>
> Yes this is a standard pattern in Luke-Acts.
>
> Funk 0880. Consecutive clauses denote the result (intended or actual)
> of the action indicated by the verb in the main clause.
>
> Did Luke intend us to understand that Jesus was being pushed back
> into the lake by the crowd so that standing by the lake was a result
> of the pressure from the crowd?

I DON'T KNOW what Luke intended. Evidently these translators DO KNOW;  
what I want to find out is HOW they know. Are they guessing? I'm  
reminded of a somewhat similar passage at the beginning of Mark 4,  
which might conceivably have been in Luke's thinking when he wrote  
his own 5:1:

Mark 4:1 	Καὶ πάλιν ἤρξατο διδάσκειν  
παρὰ τὴν θάλασσαν· καὶ συνάγεται  
πρὸς αὐτὸν ὄχλος πλεῖστος, ὥστε  
αὐτὸν εἰς πλοῖον ἐμβάντα  
καθῆσθαι ἐν τῇ θαλάσσῃ, καὶ πᾶς ὁ  
ὄχλος πρὸς τὴν θάλασσαν ἐπὶ τῆς  
γῆς ἦσαν.  2 καὶ ἐδίδασκεν αὐτοὺς  
ἐν παραβολαῖς πολλὰ καὶ ἔλεγεν  
αὐτοῖς ἐν τῇ διδαχῇ αὐτοῦ·

KAI PALIN HRXATO DIDASKEIN PARA THN QALASSAN; KAI SUNAGETAI PROS  
AUTON OCLOS PLEISTOS, hWSTE AUTON EIS PLOION EMBANTA KAQHSQAI EN THi  
QALASSHi, KAI PAS hO OCLOS PROS THN QALASSAN EPI THS GHS HSAN. 2 KAI  
EDIDASKEN AUTOU EN PARABOLAIS POLLA ...

I can be satisfied easily here if someone will adduce two or three  
convincing parallels to the phrase KAI AKOUEIN in the sense of 'in  
order to hear."


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/





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