[B-Greek] Agent in JOHN 6:19b

Elizabeth Kline kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Sun Mar 4 16:53:23 EST 2007


On Mar 4, 2007, at 12:28 AM, Iver Larsen wrote:

> For GINOMAI, the primary role is Patient, with the potential for an  
> additional role of Agent, both
> roles referring to the syntactic subject. It is a descriptive verb  
> that does not focus on Jesus
> walking on the water, but his position being at or changing toward  
> the vicinity of the boat, so
> "getting near the boat" would catch the meaning nicely.
>
> By the way, predicate adjectives function very much the same way as  
> descriptive verbs like "be" or
> "become". In some languages you don't say "She is beautiful", you  
> say "she beautifuls". The semantic
> frame is the same: one Patient role. When you describe something,  
> the thing you describe has the
> role of Patient. In an African language that I am familiar with,  
> you can put both person and tense
> prefixes on adjectives in the same way they are attached to verbs.

JOHN 6:19 ELHLAKOTES OUN hWS STADIOUS EIKOSI PENTE H TRIAKONTA
QEWROUSIN TON IHSOUN PERIPATOUNTA EPI THS QALASSHS KAI EGGUS TOU
PLOIOU GINOMENON, KAI EFOBHQHSAN.


Iver,

I think my first response sort of missed your point which is a  
typical problem in these discussions. My reading of Danker 3rd Ed on  
GINOMAI gave me the impression that GINOMAI is capable of being used  
to describe a process/activity. See Danker 198-199 #6 "to make a  
change of location in space, move". If we understand KAI EGGUS TOU  
PLOIOU GINOMENON in Jn 6:19 as describing a state and only a state  
"near the boat" then I would agree that there isn't any room for a  
semantic agent.

But the structure of the verse also had a role in my understanding   
GINOMAI as describing activity.


IHSOUN
   PERIPATOUNTA EPI THS QALASSHS
      KAI
   EGGUS TOU PLOIOU GINOMENON

I understood this Xism as being two expressions defining the same  
ACTIVITY with the same semantic agent as defined in my previous reply.

Anyway, I think I can see why everyone is objecting to the agent role  
for this verse.

thanks for all the responses, Carl is right about the metalanguage  
problem.

Elizabeth Kline







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