[B-Greek] APOLUTRWSIS

Bert de Haan b_dehaan at sympatico.ca
Mon Mar 19 22:43:10 EDT 2007


George;
I was not saying one way or the other.  I was just quoting what I thought 
Jan Hoogland wrote about it.
Maybe I made a mistake by equating innate meaning with intrinsic meaning.  
These two words might not be exact synonyms but it appears that in this 
context they stand for the same thing.  (Or maybe Humpty Dumpty meant 
something else than I what think he meant:))

I am not able to give the innate meaning of shambles, gay or to let, but I 
would be interested in hearing Jan Hoogland's answer to that question.

Bert de Haan.



>From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
>To: Bert de Haan <b_dehaan at sympatico.ca>, b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] APOLUTRWSIS
>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:47:34 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Bert,
>
>I don't think you understand the meaning of "innate."  What you are 
>referencing in no way shows that there are innate meanings to words.  If 
>you think that there are innate meanings to words, then answer the 
>following:  What is the "innate" meaning of "shambles"?  What is the 
>"innate" meaning of "gay"?  What is the "innate" meaning of "to let"?
>
>
>george
>gfsomsel
>_________
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Bert de Haan <b_dehaan at sympatico.ca>
>To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:22:56 PM
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] APOLUTRWSIS
>
>
>"Barry" <nebarry at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Shall we follow Plato or Aristotle here?  "Innate" and "elephant" are 
>both
>words
> >in English with quite restricted semantic ranges, so that your example
> >really
> >doesn't relate.  Would you care to tell me what the innate meanings of 
>the
> >words
> >"run" and "scan" are in English?  I am supplying English examples because
> >it
> >makes the point better for us native English (or American) speakers than
> >Greek,
> >for which it is very difficult for modern students to "feel" the semantic
> >range
> >of the word in the same way an ancient would have.
> >
> >
>
>
>A while back  Jan Hoogland <hoogland at hawaii.rr.com> offered an article for
>review and comments on B-Greek that deals with this topic quite a bit.
>I have not finished it yet but I remembered that he used the example "run"
>to demonstrate that words do have intrinsic meanings.  Here is a quote:
>
>" Compare, for example, the meaning of the word run in the sentences he 
>runs
>a business and he runs a stop sign. The occurrences of the word run in 
>these
>sentences differ in meaning, the difference being induced by the context
>rather than being inherent in the word run itself. Inherent in the word run
>in both contexts is only the idea of moving well.<....snip.....>How can we
>manage by assigning only a single intrinsic meaning to the word run? It is
>possible by noticing that run in itself only generates in the mind a notion
>of moving well. A check on all thirty specific dictionary meanings of the
>verb run reveals that indeed every entry has something to do with moving
>well, some may be farfetched or abstract, but the connection is 
>unmistakable
>in all cases. The context then adds further meaning to the point where we
>arrive at each specific use of run. Note that the context can only add
>meaning to the intrinsic meaning of run, but does not and cannot provide 
>the
>intrinsic meaning itself. This process of assembling the intended meaning 
>of
>a sentence is one of addition rather than one of elimination, as the 
>concept
>of multiple meanings of a word requires. The clarity of meaning of a
>sentence obtained in this way is quite surprising, considering such a large
>variety in usage. The clarity is a consequence of adhering to a single
>intrinsic meaning of a word.<...snip...>An example may show how the mind
>builds up the meaning of a sentence. By slowly reading the sentence: He ran
>the car into the ditch, it will be noticed that ran by itself indicates no
>more than that something is moving well. No appeal by the mind is being 
>made
>to the specific meanings of run, only a curiosity is present as to how the
>sentence is going to proceed. The mention of the car adds considerable
>meaning, but again it does not start an elimination process of the possible
>specific meanings of run or car; it only adds further meaning to the
>developing sentence. The addition of into and the ditch completes the
>meaning of the sentence and establishes a specific use of ran, which in 
>this
>case is driving an automobile too fast.
>
>As the verb run has thirty specific meanings, car three, into six and bush
>one, we are faced with 540 combinations of meaning from which we have to
>somehow select the intended combination. Experience shows that anybody
>understands the intended meaning instantly and without fail, indicating 
>that
>the process is additive, single meaning by single meaning. This proves that
>the thirty different specific meanings are not independent meanings but are
>thirty different uses of a single intrinsic meaning. Note that when ran is
>replaced by xxx, the intrinsic meaning of ran cannot be retrieved by the
>context, as it could stand for crashed, tumbled, flew, etc. The assignment
>of a single intrinsic meaning to a word is fundamental to the concept of
>word meaning and the differentiation between intrinsic meaning and usage
>will prove to be essential."
>
>(Maybe this will whet the apatite for the rest of the article.)
>
>
>Bert de Haan.
>
>
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