[B-Greek] Iterative, Customary, Gnomic, Conative, etc.
randallbuth at gmail.com
randallbuth at gmail.com
Thu Mar 29 13:12:37 EDT 2007
I'll deal with two emails below **
EGRAPSE GEWRGOS
>While you certainly have a point, I think there are certain factors which
constrain one to follow a more traditional approach to learning Greek
through the medium of learning the grammar. >
**Second language acquistion theory would say that a grammatical medium is a
medium that will guarantee problems with fluency.**
> It would hardly do to simply throw a Greek text at someone and say, "Here,
read this." They would need to approach it as some form of cryptogram
(which some seem to do in any case). The only method even approaching this
is the immersion technique -- something like Randall Buth's approach. Most
of us, however, aren't able to immerse ourselves in the language in such a
fashion since the opportunity to do so is not practically available. It
would only be practical if such an opportunity were available on a more
local level. >
** The question for the field of ancient Greek studies is simple, "Is it
possible to internalize a language within a classroom?" Optimists say Yes,
pessimists say No.**
>In any case, learning a second language as an adult is not quite the same
as learning a language (or languages) by osmosis as a child. >
** This is true, (adults are somewhat different, with different needs), but
it does not mean that a human being can internalize a language through
studying a grammatical system. **
_________
SANDERS D'EGEGRAFEI
>The problem is not the capacity of an individual to learn both, but the
efficiency of learning the language. It appears that linguists are
attempting to piggy-back on the teaching of Greek by also teaching
linguistics, two for one with no added effort. ...>
** NAI, and the order of presentation is important. Fluency is best
approached before grammar if one does not want everything to be run almost
permanantly through an analytical processing "monitor" by the students and
teachers.**
>". . . It is the language itself and not a grammar about that language that
the student who wishes to learn to read Greek needs to confront. For that
reason, the grammar itself is suppressed wherever possible. And, if modern
linguistics is correct in its fundamental affirmations, the one needful
thing in learning a new language is familiarity with its grammatical
structure. Such familiarity need not be explicit; the learner needs to
"know" the structure and structure signals only in the sense that he is
able, immediately and without deliberation, to respond to them.". . .
traditional grammar might be something apart from the ability to read Greek,
in fact, might be an impediment to such ability.">
**Funk "may have been closer to the mark on this last statement than he was
aware."
>My wife has started to study Chinese herself. She actually keeps a diary
in
Chinese. How many students attempt to keep a diary in Greek, or write their
shopping lists in Greek, or write doggerel (spelling?) to a boyfriend or
girlfriend. ...>
**MALISTA.**
>I have not seen the impact of linguistics on language instruction in
Chinese, Japanese, or Vietnamese as I have seen it in Biblical Greek. I
conjecture it all began with Erasmus. When he attempted to reconstruct a
"correct pronunciation" of Greek for the classical period, he set in motion
a consequence not predictable at the time (or so I think). What he did was
remove Greek (and Latin) from a language spoken by other human beings to one
that could be "intellectualized". In other words, it is not related to
actual human commerce, but one that can be treated as if it were caballa (or
kaballa, spelling?) and bring in all this gnostic reasoning and get to the
real meat behind the GNT (all without having to have real human
communication restraining our thinking).
At least that is how it looks to me.>
**I think you're being too hard on Erasmus. I heard a story that he 'got'
Greek when he visited a group of Greek scholars in Venice who were reading
the ancient authors and discussing them in Greek. In his day it was
comonplace for children to have tutors for Latin who spoke with them. They
'got' Latin and could write diaries, books, notes, whatever, in Latin. But
not so Greek. The post-renaissance West does not really have a good track
record with Greek like they have with Latin. The ancient West did much
better, but again, Quintillian shows that the Romans used tutors, too, who
would speak in Greek with the children. And educate romans could apparently
give and listen to speeches in Greek. That is a practical standard for
saying 'someone knows a language', even if not eloquent, but simply
communicative.**
Randall Buth, PhD
Director, Biblical Language Center
www.BiblicalUlpan.org
buth at jerusalemschool.org
randallbuth at gmail.com
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