[B-Greek] Iterative, Customary, Gnomic, Conative, etc.
randallbuth at gmail.com
randallbuth at gmail.com
Thu Mar 29 17:02:42 EDT 2007
Gewrgos egrapse
> Not to disagree with you, but to perhaps explain a bit what I had in mind
when I said
"In any case, learning a second language as an adult is not quite the same
as learning a language (or languages) by osmosis as a child."
And by which I was tending to support a more traditional approach using
grammar.
An adult looks for reasons which account for the way things are stated
whereas the child tends to simply accept them. When I was taking French I
was rather puzzled by certain expressions which simply didn't seem to make
sense. They appeared to have a surplus of words (in the written form) which
simply didn't map to what they meant. In frustration I finally began to
analyze what was being written (even opposed to what was said since the
French don't really seem to speak what they write). It was only when I did
this that it became apparent that what was written was apparently a vestige
of what was at one time said but which isn't even spoken today. As a
result, even today French isn't my favorite language. Sprechen Sie
Deutsch?>
There are points of agreement and disagreement.
I am very happy with grammar in the right place, and in general, only
post-puberty people have the abstract 'otherness' necessary to discuss how
their own language works, let alone a second or third. But that doesn't mean
that traditional 'grammar-translation' is effective at putting a language
inside a person as an adult. For all the lack of agreement on the best
optimal mix of techniques in a language program, language acquisition theory
is agreed that gramm-translation is incapable of producing the fruit. On the
positive side, a very hands-on approach like TPR (total physical resonse)
developer James Asher mentioned that bits of grammar can be put in the right
spots and reported a class that got positive benefit from the
systematicization of grammar at a 60-hour level of a TPR program.
APO TWN KARPWN AUTWN EPIGNWSESQE AUTOUS
>From their fruit you will recognize them.
And there are times when childlikeness is a requirement for adults:
OS AN MH DEXHTAI THN ELLHNIKHN WS PAIDION, OU MH EISELQH EIS AUTHN
Whoever does not receive the Greek as a kid, will not enter it.
What to look for? At a seminary, look for a teacher who can open his class
in spontaneous prayer in the language. If incapable, something didn't
work//isn't working. In classics look for a teacher who is interacting
orally and rapidly in the language with students. WHD Rouse was supposed to
do this, though he was three generations before my time. My understanding is
that he had been trained traditionally but recognized that something along
the lines of the 'series' method (incorporated into Berlitz) was necessary
for truer and more direct learning.
I also like French, with their vestiges. Every language is full of vestiges.
Und wir koennen Deutsch zusammen, aber warum, wenn haben wir ELLHNIKH?
Language learning requires 'making sense'. And an acceptance of "certain
expressions which simply ..." make a certain sense is an important part of
language learning. You want to be using a language when discussing why it
might work the way it does. Or discussing a text.
I might add that this is something vital for the field. Programs are cutting
Greek requirements because computer programs can parse verbs for students.
But normal language use and language goals in a modern academic language are
not to parse verbs or to classify grammar. We need to raise the bar to the
skills of normal language use applied to a literature. Then we should have
something that will attract students and preserve programs.
So one takes a step in that direction if one hopes to arrive. Maybe lots of
little steps.
KAI ERRWSO
Randall
Randall Buth, PhD
Director, Biblical Language Center
www.BiblicalUlpan.org
buth at jerusalemschool.org
randallbuth at gmail.com
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list