[B-Greek] Periphrastic and Aspect

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu May 3 12:17:39 EDT 2007


On May 3, 2007, at 9:22 AM, Mitch Larramore wrote:

> Dr. Conrad,
>
> The translation of this Periphrastic given in Mounce's
> book is: "you are being saved"

So he thinks it means exactly the same as SWiZESQE?
>
> How would you translate your SESWiSQE ?

"You are in a state of salvation" or "You stand saved."
>
> Mounce does say that the CONTINUOUS idea was
> 'originally' the idea behind a Periphrastic, but by
> the time of Hellenistic Greek that idea had largely
> been lost. He adds that this is why there were no
> Aorist participles in this construct. He does say to
> check the context, like Eph 2, to see if the
> CONTINUOUS idea is still there. I guess he sees the
> CONTINUOUS idea in this passage. Was the CONTINUOUS
> idea the 'original' intent?
>
> Could you elaborate.

I don't know what's to elaborate; I just think he's wrong
about this. I think -- as I've already indicated -- that the
periphrastic was employed originally to avoid the awkward
assimilation of unlike consonants of the verb-stem and ending.
See Smyth §§408 and 409, §§599-601, 707-710, 714;
BDF §§352. The periphrastic perfect and pluperfect are
different from periphrastic forms basesd on a PRESENT
participle + EINAI (BDF §353).

I have no idea what Mounce may have had in mind in
what you read. I didn't keep a copy of Mounce's textbook
in my library when I retired -- although I kept several
other Greek primers. What you describe SOUNDS like
he's talking about periphrastics with a present participle.
That does NOT apply to  ESTE SESWiSMENOI in
Eph 2:8. I just don't see how ESTE SESWiSMENOI
can be equated with ESTE SWiZOMENOI.

>
>
> --- "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 2, 2007, at 6:46 PM, Mitch Larramore wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> THi GAR CARITI ESTE SESWiSMENOI DIA PISTEWS...Eph
>> 2.8a
>>>
>>> "The aspect intended by ESTE SESWiSMENOI covers
>> the
>>> entire journey (of salvation)" per Paul Jackson.
>> He
>>> then translates it "For by grace you are being
>> saved,
>>> through faith."
>>>
>>> My Idioms by Porter says the verbal aspect comes
>> from
>>> the Participle part and the Mood comes from EIMI
>> part.
>>
>> i.e. ESTE tells you it's indicative; SESWiSMENOI
>> tells you
>> it's perfect.
>>
>>>
>>> 1. What is the meaning of a Periphrastic
>> construction
>>> in general? What does it emphasize?
>>>
>>> 2. And, what is the meaning of this particular
>>> Periphrastic construction... ESTE SESWiSMENOI?
>> Wallace
>>> says a Present EIMI and a Perfect participle = a
>>> Perfect idea, but I'm not sure how to understand
>> that.
>>
>> I'd say that you ought to read ESTE SESWiSMENOI to
>> mean
>> exactly the same thing as SESWiSQE -- it's a perfect
>> passive
>> 2 pl. indicative.
>>
>> Periphrastics in the perfect middle-passive were
>> already
>> becoming common in Classical Attic, primarily
>> because of
>> the awkwardness of assimilation of MAI/SAI/TAI/
>> MEQA/SQE/NTAI to perfect stems ending in a
>> consonant.
>>
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University
>> (Retired)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828)
>> 675-4243
>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/





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