[B-Greek] hEWS AN--"While" (Heb. 1:13)?
Webb
webb at selftest.net
Thu May 10 12:51:15 EDT 2007
Dear George,
BDAG’s definition 1 β seems to pose the very problem you and Iver say doesn’t exist:
“to denote that the commencement of an event is dependent on circumstances: hEWS AN EIPW SOI Mt 2:13…”
In Mt. 2:13, the angel tells Joseph to wait with his family in Egypt until the angel tells him [to come back to Israel].
If you plug this sense into Heb. 1:13, which also has a kind of passive “waiting” on the part of Jesus, who sits on God’s right while God subdues his enemies, the question arises, what is the event that is dependent on the subduing of enemies? None is stated, leaving the reader—if they try to work with this definition—wondering what Jesus is going to do after he sits at God’s right.
I’d love to use “while”, to escape this unwanted implication in English, but upon surveying many instances, only a few seemed capable of being rendered as “while”. For example of a typical “until” sense, 1 Kgs 1:23 has Eli urging Hanna to stay (=KAQOU, interestingly) until she’s weaned the child Samuel. The implication—although it’s not a strict implication—is that she will go home after that. Then again, Ps. 70:18 LXX seems to qualify for “while”:
“And even when [I am] old and gray, O God, do not forsake me,
Until (hEWS AN) I declare Thy strength to [this] generation,
Thy power to all who are to come”.
This qualifies to be rendered as “while” on two counts: 1. It calls for a condition to last during a process, rather than up to an end point, and 2. It seems clearly not to imply that the author wants the condition to come to an end at the end of the process. In other words, the Psalmist probably doesn’t want God to forsake him even when he’s finished proclaiming God’s strength to his people. Similarly, see Isa. 42:4; 46:4.
I guess I feel encouraged to translate hEWS AN as “while” in NT quotations of Ps. 110:1 (109:1 LXX)—but if it’s that simple, why doesn’t anyone else??
Webb Mealy
_____
From: George F Somsel [mailto:gfsomsel at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 5:14 AM
To: Webb; B Greek
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] hEWS AN--"While" (Heb. 1:13)?
I would suggest that you review 1aβ under the entry for hEWS in BDAG.
β. w. the aor. subj. and, as the rule requires (s. AFuchs, D. Temporalsätze mit d. Konj. ‘bis’ u. ‘so lange als.’ 1902), ἄν (X., An. 5, 1, 11; SIG 966, 11; 1207, 10; PPetr II, 40a, 28; POxy 1124, 7; Gen 24:14; 49:10; Ex 33:22; Lev 22:4 and oft. LXX; TestAbr B 7 p. 112, 2 [Stone p. 72]; TestJob 21:2; ParJer 2:3; ApcMos 26 p. 14, 7 Tdf.; Jos., Ant. 13, 400; Just., A I, 45, 1), to denote that [Page 423] the commencement of an event is dependent on circumstances: hEWS AN EIPW SOI Mt 2:13.—5:18 (AHoneyman, NTS 1, ’54/55, 141f), 26 (cp. SIG 731, 16ff hEWS AN APODWi); 10:23; 22:44 (Ps 109:1); Mk 6:10; 9:1; 12:36 (Ps 109:1); Lk 20:43 (Ps 109:1); 21:32; Ac 2:35 (Ps 109:1); 1 Cor 4:5; Hb 1:13; B 12:10 (the two last Ps 109:1).—Without AN (Soph., Aj. 555, Phil. 764; Polyb. 35, 2, 4; SIG 976, 79; UPZ 18, 10 [II b.c.]; PGrenf II, 38, 16 [I b.c.]; POxy 531, 6; 1125, 15; 1159, 21; Sir 35:17; Tob 14:5 BA; En 10:12, 17; TestSol 15:10; ParJer 5:14; GrBar 11:2; SibOr 5, 217; Just. D. 39, 6): Mt 10:23 v.l.; 18:30; Mk 14:32; Lk 15:4 and 22:34 (both v.l. hEWS hOU); 2 Th 2:7; Js 5:7; Hb 10:13; Rv 6:11.[1]
The usage as "until" seems fairly common. I do not, however, see that this implies a cessation of the "sitting …" at the time of the completion of the action stated. The placement of a terminus upon the action of "sitting" seems to be a function of the English word "until" which is frequently taken to be something like "only up to the point" rather that "up to the point (and perhaps beyond)."
george
gfsomsel
Therefore, O faithful Christian, search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
_________
----- Original Message ----
From: Webb <webb at selftest.net>
To: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2007 8:37:45 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] hEWS AN--"While" (Heb. 1:13)?
KAQOU EK DEXIWN MOU hEWS AN QW TOUS ECQROUS SOU UPOPODION TWN PODWN SOU
I was about to render Heb. 1:13 (quoting Ps. Ps. 109:1 LXX [=110:1 English])
similarly to the way I've seen it in many English translations:
Sit on my right, until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.
But then I read Lattimore's rendering, and it got me thinking.
Sit on my right, so that I may make your enemies a footstool for your feet
I started thinking that we don't say "until", but "while", to convey what I
suspect the statement might be getting at:
Sit on my right, while I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.
Does anyone want to demonstrate that hEWS AN always has to mean "until", in
the sense that most English speakers would get from it, that carries the
implication that the "sitting on the right" comes to an end when God's
making footstools of the enemies comes to an end? BAGD lists the sense
"while" for hEWS (def. 2: see Mk 14:32; Lk. 17:8), but, apart from those
instances of hEWS AN that come from this LXX quotation (6/19) and that in
Mt. 12:20, the NT instances all clearly mean "until".
Webb Mealy
---
B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
B-Greek mailing list
B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
_____
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-> cars at Yahoo! Autos.
_____
[1]
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. "Based on Walter Bauer's Griechisch-deutsches Wr̲terbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der frhchristlichen [sic] Literatur, sixth edition, ed. Kurt Aland and Barbara Aland, with Viktor Reichmann and on previous English editions by W.F. Arndt, F.W. Gingrich, and F.W. Danker." (3rd ed.) (422). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list