[B-Greek] PARA in John 1:14
Donald R. Vance, Ph.D.
donaldrvance at mac.com
Fri Nov 2 22:31:53 EDT 2007
For what it is worth, the Syriac Peshitta, a rather slavish rendering
of the Greek, understood PARA PATROS as "from the/a father" as well
(men >abbA>).
Donald R. Vance, Ph.D.
Professor of Biblical Languages and Literature
Oral Roberts University
dvance at oru.edu
donaldrvance at mac.com
On Nov 2, 2007, at 4:13 PM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>
> On Nov 2, 2007, at 4:47 PM, Jerry Reimer wrote:
>
>> Concerning PARA with the genitive case:
>>
>> An expositor has said that both meanings (from [genitive] and with
>> [dative]) are present in a place like John 1:14 (PARA PATROS).
>> Thus, from-with is his translation. This construction is said to
>> prove that the Son is both from the father and with the father at
>> the same time; that is to say, the son came from the father and the
>> father came down onto the earth with the son. I am not asking about
>> the theology of this exposition. I am asking about the language
>> which is being used (misused?) to support it. Does the language
>> support this view?
>>
>> If my understanding is correct, you cannot have your cake and eat
>> it too; that is to say, it is either from or with (depending on the
>> case of the object) and that the most you can say is that the son
>> was with the father and came from the father but that it is
>> illegitimate totality transfer (per James Barr) to cram multiple
>> meanings into this preposition for the sake of a theological
>> position. Am I missing something here or do prepositions carry all
>> of their semantic baggage with them all the time regardless of the
>> case of the object? Isn't that what cases are about (thus limiting,
>> narrowing down the several meanings of prepositions)?
>
> Text:
> John 1:14 Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο
> καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ
> ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν
> ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης
> χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας.
> KAI hO LOGOS SARX EGENETO KAI ESKHNWSEN EN hHMIN, KAI EQEASAMEQA THN
> DOXAN AUTOU, DOXAN hWS MONOGENOUS PARA PATROS, PLHRHS CARITOS KAI
> ALHQEIAS.
>
> For my part, I can see no justification whatsoever for understanding
> PARA PATROS as anything other than "from a father." I don't see how
> PARA with a genitive is supposed to be simultaneously equivalent to
> PARA with a dative.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Ret)
>
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