[B-Greek] Acts 16:22--force of the imperfect EKELEUON?
Webb Mealy
webb at selftest.net
Wed Nov 7 12:23:30 EST 2007
Thanks for your comments. It's not always possible to convey into English
the nuance that is lent to the verbal idea by the presence of the imperfect,
but I do see it as a "marked" form in relation to the aorist, so Bryant's
proposal really doesn't do it for me. I may be wrong, but I don't think that
the author's use of the imperfect serves to underline the idea of
sequentiality of events (as in "After...then").
An idea I had this morning was that the imperfect could be there because the
implication is that the magistrates supervised the beating throughout,
determining when enough blows had been struck on each person. Then the
imperfect would convey the extension in time of the ordering. The
alternative to this and my first suggestion could be that selected by NASB:
"the magistrates...proceeded to order them to be beaten". Not very elegant,
but it does pop out of the aoristic mode into the sense of an ongoing
process.
Webb Mealy
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryant J. Williams III [mailto:bjwvmw at com-pair.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 7:51 AM
To: kgraham0938 at comcast.net; Webb Mealy; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Acts 16:22--force of the imperfect EKELEUON?
Dear Webb,
Would it not be easier to say, "After the commander stripped their clothes,
he
then ordered them to be beaten with rods." ?
My reasoning is two-fold. First, "After" gives the sequence of events,
"After...
then" is explicit. Second, the participle is taking the same tense as
"stripped." It is really not necessary to say, "he began ordering them to be
beaten with rods," or "he began to order that they be beaten with rods."
The first translation is too wordy. The second translation treats the
imperfect
as an infinitive and treats the infinitive as a passive verb."
BTW, regarding the phrase, "the spirit of divination/prophesying." I would
translate it as "the spirit of Python," since that is what Luke was
indicating.
In ancient Greek mythology, Apollos defeated/killed the Pythian spirit at
Delphi, thus, becoming the owner/ruler of oracles/prophecy which was by
young
woman prophetess who spoke in unintelligible gibberish/mumbling
(GLWSSALALIA)
and was interpreted by two men . This would have a profound affect on the
Corinthians and the Temple of Apollo (and also at Didymus, south of Ephesus)
and
the understanding of Paul's remarks in I Corinthians 14 regarding
GLWSSALALIA
being "intelligible, spoken language" in contrast to the Delphic oracles
utterances and prophecy.
En Xristwi,
Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message -----
From: <kgraham0938 at comcast.net>
To: "Webb Mealy" <webb at selftest.net>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Acts 16:22--force of the imperfect EKELEUON?
> I'd be interested in seeing what others have to say about that because it
seems to me that you are almost arguing for an ingressive infinite when you
say
"commence beating..." And I don't think that would be correct. I can
understand an ingressive imperfect meaning 'began ordering' because one can
take
the aorist participle PERIRHXANTES as being antecedent to the imperfect
EKELEUON.
>
> Reading it as "after the commander stripped their clothes, he began
ordering
them to be beaten with rods."
> --
> Kelton Graham
> KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Webb Mealy" <webb at selftest.net>
>
> > KAI hOI STRATHGOI PERIRHXANTES AUTWN TA hIMATIA EKELEUON hRABDIZEIN
> >
> >
> >
> > This appears to say,
> >
> >
> >
> > And the magistrates, having stripped off their clothes, began giving the
> > order to beat them with rods.
> >
> >
> >
> > Somehow I suspect that this is not what it's about. I wonder if the
> > imperfect form EKELEUON might be there to lend an ingressive flavor-and
not
> > to the action of ordering itself, but to the activity being ordered,
thus:
> >
> >
> >
> > And the magistrates, after having the men's clothes stripped off, gave
the
> > order to commence beating them with rods.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is that possible? If not, what is the force of the imperfect?
> >
> >
> >
> > Webb Mealy
> >
> > (returning to translating after a two-month hiatus)
> >
> > ---
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