[B-Greek] "The lexicon is wrong!"
frjsilver at optonline.net
frjsilver at optonline.net
Tue Sep 25 10:21:58 EDT 2007
I'm not asserting that identical MG and KG forms are always identical in meaning -- far from it!
But occasionally they are, and this is one of the situations where the correspondence is very helpful to comprehension.
And while it's true that *some* lexikons illustrate the meaning of TRAPEZA as 'bank', there are many which don't, seemingly unaware of the metonym.
Father James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl W. Conrad"
Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:07 am
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] "The lexicon is wrong!"
To: frjsilver at optonline.net
Cc: Jonathan Robie , B-Greek
>
> On Sep 25, 2007, at 9:00 AM, frjsilver at optonline.net wrote:
>
> > Dear Friends --
> >
> > Oh, my! YES! There are many outstanding examples of this
> problem
> > and I consistently stumble across new ones.
> >
> > The situation is exacerbated because (in my experience,
> although
> > I'm far from alone in this) 'mainstream scholarship' is often
> stuck
> > in first gear and on the whole exhibits the same liabilities
> as the
> > lexikons. It's those of us outside that 'mainstream' who
> often
> > have a better handle on the text.
> >
> > Consider TRAPEZA in Acts 6. Traditionally, it was thought
> that the
> > apostles were 'waiting tables' at the expense of their time
> and
> > energy which should have been devoted to preaching and
> teaching, so
> > they asked the Church to select seven deacons to take over the
>
> > menial work.
> >
> > It's true that some commentaries barely allow the possibility
> that
> > there might be a resonance of financial administration here,
> but
> > most completely miss the point.
> >
> > Guess what H EQNIKH TRAPEZA THS hELLADOS is? No fair peeking,
> but
> > I'll give you a hint: It's The National Bank of Greece!
> >
> > People who speak Greek get the meaning of Acts 6 right off the
> bat,
> > but the experts and scholars who don't speak the language are
> too
> > unconsciously comfortable in their dead lexikons to understand
> what
> > was going on.
>
> I think there's a logical short-circuit here; one might just as
> well
> say that one who speaks (Modern) Greek may be all too
> unconsciously
> comfortable about understanding the usage of a modern Greek word
> to
> be the same as that of the ancient word so-spelled. It is not
> quite
> the case that those who speak Greek today speak NT Koine Greek.
>
> > The apostles weren't waiting tables; they were administering
> the
> > common fund, and being overwhelmed by that task to the point
> that
> > their preaching suffered. And they weren't doling out the
> money
> > too efficiently either, hence the complaint of the Greek-
> speaking
> > Protochristians that theirwidows were getting short-changed
> while
> > the Aramaic-speaking community were apparently better served.
> >
> > Does anyone appreciate the significance of the fact that all
> seven
> > of the first deacons have Greek names?!
>
> Or that the only work that Acts tells us of the seven actually
> doing
> is proclamation of the gospel to Greek-speaking audiences rather
> than
> EITHER waiting tables OR financial administration of
> ecclesiastical
> funds?
>
> > They don't tell us that sort of thing in those lexikons!
>
> Actually they do, if you use the right lexicons -- the ones that
>
> should be consulted for ancient Greek and NT usage:
>
> BDAG s.v. TRAPEZA:
> c. the table on which the money changers display their coins
> (Pla.,
> Ap. 17c; cp. PEleph 10, 2 [223/222 BC] the τραπεζῖται
> ἐν τοῖς ἱεροῖς TRAPEZITAI EN TOIS hIEROIS) Mt 21:12;
> Mk 11:15; J 2:15. Hence simply bank (Lysias, Isocr., Demosth. et
> al.;
> EpArist; Jos., Ant. 12, 28; ins; PEleph 27, 23; POxy 98 al. in
> pap.
> The Engl. ‘bank’ is the money-lender’s ‘bench’; s. OED s.v.
> bank sb.3) διδόναι τὸ ἀργύριον ἐπὶ
> τράπεζαν (DIDONAI TO ARGURION EPI TRAPEZAN) put the money in
> the bank to bear interest Lk 19:23.—Ac 6:2 may contain humorous
> wordplay, which mingles the idea of table service and accounting
>
> procedures: serve as accountants (on the banking terminology s.
> Field, Notes 113, referring to Plut., Caesar 721 [28, 4]; 739
> [67,
> 1], but w. discount of meal service as a referent. In addition
> to
> Field’s observations note the prob. wordplay relating to λόγος
> (LOGOS)[for its commercial nuance s. LOGOS 2a on the same verse;
> s.
> also Goodsp., Probs. 126f, w. reff. to pap]. For epigraphs s.
> RBogaert, Epigraphica III ’76 index).—B. 352 (meal); 483; 778
> (bank).
>
> LSJ s.v. TRAPEZA):
> II. money-changer's counter, ἐν ἀγορᾷ ἐπὶ τῶν τ.
> (EN AGORAi EPI TWN TRAPEZWN) Pl.Ap.17c, cf. Plu.2.70f; αἱ τ.
> τῶν κολλυβιστῶν (hAI TRAPEZAI TWN KOLLUBISTWN) Ev.Matt.
> 21.12; most freq. bank, Lys 9.5, etc.; ἡ ἐργασία ἡ
> τῆς τ. (hH ERGASIA hH THS TRAPEZHS) the right to operate the
> bank, D.36.6; ἡ ἐγγύη ἡ ἐπὶ τὴν τ. (hH ENGGH hH
> EPI THN TRAPEZAN) security given to the bank, Id.33.10;
> δοῦναι ἀργύριον ἐπὶ τ. (DOUNAI ARGURION EPI THN
> TRAPEZAN) Ev.Luc.19.23; τὸ ἐπὶ τὴν τ. χρέως (TO EPI
> THN TRAPEZAN CREWS) D.33.24; οἱ ἐπὶ ταῖς τ. (hOI EPI
> TAIS TRAPEZAIS) bankers, Isoc.17.2; κατασκευάζεσθαι
> τράπεζαν (KATASKEUAZESQAI TRAPEZAN) set up a bank, Is.Fr.66;
> τῆς τ. ἀνασκευασθείσης (THS TRAPEZHS
> ANAKEUASQEISHS) the bank having been broken, D.33.9; δημοσία
> τ. (DHMOSIA TRAPEZA) public bank at Delos, IG22.2336.180 (i B.
> C.);
> in Egypt, POxy. 835 (Aug.), etc.; βασιλικὴ τ. in Egypt,
> PEleph.27.22 (iii B. C.), PTeb.27.70 (ii B. C.), etc.;
> χειριστὴς τῆς ἐν τῇ Πολέμωνος
> μερίδι τ. (CEIRISTHS THS EN THi POLEMWNOS MERIDI TRAPEZHS)
> PEnteux.38.1 (iii B. C.); opp. ἰδιωτικὴ τ. (IDIWTIKH
> TRAPEZA) POxy.305 (i A. D.), etc.; κολλυβιστικαὶ τ.
> (KOLLUBISTIKAI TRAPEZAI) ib.1411.4 (iii A. D.).
>
> > Do we want to go into 'Our Father"? Maybe some other time....
>
> Preferably some other time ...
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jonathan Robie
> > Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:37 am
> > Subject: [B-Greek] "The lexicon is wrong!"
> > To: B-Greek
> >
> >> I'm involved in a discussion that revolves around the meaning of
> >> a few
> >> Greek words, and some of the participants in the discussion (who
> >> actually don't speak Greek) are claiming that a particular word
> >> doesn'tmean what it says the lexicon says, but means something
> >> significantlydifferent. I doubt that they are right, and none of
> >> is is a
> >> lexicographer, but this makes me wonder ...
> >>
> >> Can you think of examples where the meaning of a New
> Testament
> >> passage
> >> has changed in the eyes of mainstream scholarship because we
> >> came to
> >> realize that our earlier understanding of a Greek word was
> >> wrong? Are
> >> there recent examples, say, in the last 20-30 years? Are
> there major
> >> changes in the meaning of some words between BADG and BDAG?
> >>
> >> Jonathan
> >>
> >> ---
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> >>
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Ret)
>
>
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