[B-Greek] Advertising books on the list

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Thu Apr 3 09:04:23 EDT 2008


On Apr 3, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Leonard Isaksson wrote:

> I agree with Mr. Ernest, and also, with Mr. Spinti:
>
> If we link to Amazon, while it is an help to readers here to know that
> a book has come out, it also provides some business for Amazon.  It is
> pretty tough to be a small bookseller, or in any small business.  The
> 'big box' retailers make it tough for such folks to have a livelihood.
>  It cuts them another axe blow to the tree to have 'free advertising'
> given for a giant.
>
> Perhaps not posting the price would be one way to deal with what
> concerns there are.  It is an help to know that such and so book is
> available.

I'm not in disagreement with this either. There have pretty certainly  
been occasions when we (I!) have jumped too quickly and complained  
that a link to a commercial "deal" at one or another online site is a  
commercial. I have myself called attention to the more-or-less annual  
sale of LSJ at bargain prices without any pangs of conscience --  
perhaps wrongly. I think what triggered my response on the present  
occasion was the pretty blatant statement of the need to compete on  
behalf of one's own enterprise against the big giant. The question  
here, it seems to me, is whether we are (primarily) providing useful  
information to list-members or (primarily) promoting a commercial  
product. I've cited Amazon listings primarily as a quick reference to  
publication data for a book, but of course there's pricing and easy- 
ordering information at that site also.

I think my own sense of propriety here is that we shouldn't consider  
the B-Greek list as a marketplace but as a center for useful  
information. If the intent of the notice is to provide useful  
information about a book that may be of considerable interest to some  
list-members, that's one thing. If the intent of the notice is to sell  
as many books to potential buyers as possible -- to use the list as a  
commercial mailing list --, that's another. There's probably an  
overlap between the two, but it seems to me that those who post book  
information to B-Greek probably know what their primary intent is. I  
think too that unless there's a question posed about where to find an  
important book that's possibly out of print, questions about "where to  
get it" should probably be answered off-list. The final recourse: our  
FAQ says:

"Promoting products, services or public causes on this list: We do not  
permit messages on this list which can be interpreted as being of a  
commercial or business nature, including sales messages from non- 
profit organizations. We especially do not permit messages which spam  
and/or cross-post religious discussion lists trying to get people to  
purchase products or visit various web sites. Advertisements or job- 
postings are not allowed without the approval of the list-owner,  
Jonathan Robie <bgreek.owner at gmail.com>. Please clear your requests  
before posting. Those directly related to the subject matter of B- 
Greek will probably be approved."

In other words, if in doubt, ask for Jonathan's permission.

> On Apr 3, 2008, at 6:20 AM, James Ernest wrote:
>
>> Carl wrote:
>>> I won't complain of a URL that points to a notice about a book
>>> that may be of interest to list-members; what is questionable --
>>> and what I'd strongly beg you not to do -- is giving a URL and
>>> citing the price on list in order to procure business for one's
>>> own firm or for a firm one is seeking to promote competitively.
>>
>>> And while I'm grumbling, this whole marketing operation . . .
>>
>> I think I grasp the intent of the above, but the distinction between
>> providing information and advertising is not quite that clean and
>> simple.Posting an Amazon link simply to provide "notice about a book
>> that may be of interest to list-members" is already to participate
>> willy-nilly in the bookselling world's largest "marketing operation."
>>
>> Personally I don't mind either the Amazon links or Jim's occasional
>> yieldings to the impulse to say "Ahem . . . as long as all this free
>> advertising is going on, may I point out that we sell that book  
>> also?"
>> To post an Amazon link for purely noncommercial informational  
>> purposes
>> and then complain that the rejoinder is a "marketing operation" shows
>> a bit of unawareness about the world in which specialty booksellers
>> must operate. Which of them wouldn't love to get all the web traffic
>> that Amazon gets thanks to pointers from people who don't even see
>> themselves as providing free advertising? How many smaller  
>> booksellers
>> close up shop each year because the customers they are trying to  
>> serve
>> buy online at Amazon (sometimes after scoping the books out in their
>> stores or on their websites)? For them, it would be absolutely
>> stunning to see "Amazon" and "noncommercial" or "noncompetitive" held
>> together in the same thought. Amazon is a juggernaut that devours
>> specialty booksellers' breakfast, lunch, and high tea every day of  
>> the
>> year.
>>
>> People who don't want to post commercials could post links to HOLLIS
>> or LOC records and leave listmembers to find their own booksellers.
>> It's no good posting Amazon links and then grumbling about others'
>> "competitive" attempts to "procure business."
>>
>> If we're concerned about motives and profits: Most of the periti on
>> this list--professors and booksellers included--had the brains and
>> talents to make a lot more money doing something else. We're all here
>> because of something we valued more highly than the dollar. Teaching
>> is a non-for-profit profession whereby people who choose to serve in
>> that way earn their daily bread and usually not much more. Specialty
>> publishing and bookselling in academic biblical studies is sometimes
>> technically not-for-profit, more often technically for-profit; I  
>> think
>> the difference is pretty hard to grasp for most people I know who  
>> work
>> in the field.
>>
>> The B-GREEK world is small. We need a lot of patience and mutual
>> forbearance and support.
>>
>> James Ernest
>> (who works as an editor for a company that publishes academic books  
>> in
>> biblical studies and sells through both Amazon and specialty  
>> channels,
>> including Eisenbrauns, and appreciates them all in different ways)
>> ---
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>
> ---
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)






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