[B-Greek] 1 Pet 2:17: Knowing when a noun is gender-inclusive
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat Apr 19 21:15:28 EDT 2008
On Apr 19, 2008, at 8:39 PM, Kenneth Litwak wrote:
>
>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 05:47:45 -0400
>> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1 Pet 2:17: Knowing when a
>> noun is
>> Gender-inclusive
>> To: B-Greek B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> <04264092-B4A6-4652-9522-E59608A01F96 at mac.com>
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>>
>> On Apr 19, 2008, at 12:18 AM, Kenneth Litwak wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> In short as far as Greek is concerned such terms
>> are
>>>> inclusive - the
>>>> question is context, since both men and women are
>>>> the receivers of the
>>>> letter it suggests the brotherhood includes both
>> mem
>>>> and women. Those
>>>> who would use brotherhood just to mean men would
>> not
>>>> according to
>>>> rabbinacal tradition "waste their time" by
>> talking
>>>> to addressing women.
>>>>
>>>> From memory the book of Aboth starts with "Rabbi
>> so
>>>> and so told Rabbi
>>>> so and so ... not to waste time talking with
>> women"
>>>> The commentator
>>>> the adds "If that was what was said about talking
>> to
>>>> ones wife, then
>>>> talking to women in gemeral is even more of a
>> waste
>>>> of time.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> John Knightley
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> While there are instructions to wives in six
>> verses
>>> (3:1-6), that does not seem like sufficient data
>> to
>>> show that Peter was addressing both men and women
>>> throughout and it does not really tell us what a
>>> first-century reader/hearer would think when he OR
>> she
>>> encountered "brothers," e.g., James 1:2, or
>>> "brotherhood," 1 Pet 2:17. We need something more
>> to
>>> know what people would have thought sucha
>> masculine
>>> noun could have meant, I would think.
>>
>>
>> The abstract noun is formed from the adjective
>> ADELFOS/H/ON. Why is it
>> to be supposed that it is "such a masculine noun"?
>>
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University
>> (Retired)
>>
> Given that the word is formed from a word with a
> masculine ending that has a masculine referent,
> "brother,"
But that is precisely the assumption you're making that, in my
opinion, is not warranted. The abstract noun ADELFOTHS is NOT derived
from a noun with a masculine ending but from an adjective that can
take any gender. In fact the words ADELFOS and ADELFH should be seen
not as self-subsistent nouns but rather as substantive forms of the
adjective ADELFOS/ADELFH/ADELFON. I think that you are formulating the
question on the basis of an assumption that is dubious: that it must
be the masculine noun ADELFOS from which the abstract noun ADELFOTHS
is formed.
> perhaps the word "such" in my response is a
> bit hyperbolic but the fact remains that I am looking
> for a way to know if the author would have also had
> ADELFAI/KASIGNHTAI in mind. That is the whole point
> of my post. Is there any way to know what a
> first-century author thought these sorts of words
> meant, given that they did not sem ot feel the need to
> be geneder-inclusive he way we do? Let me be very
> clear. I would like to have data to support the view
> that the word for brotherhood was regularly used in
> Greek by multiple authors with an obvious multi-gender
> referent. I'd like to read it that way. I am,
> however, trying to ascertain what the text is really
> saying, rather than what I might want it to say, if
> those are different. Thanks.
>
> Ken Litwak
>
>
>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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