[B-Greek] QUESTION ON acts Acts 1:18 and the word kai idou
Mark Cain
mark at markcain.com
Thu Aug 7 17:11:22 EDT 2008
While it could be possible that the author of Acts may not have an access to
the content of Matthew's account, I do. Perhaps the occurrence of Acts
reference to something that is not included in Luke, is clearly indicative
that Luke DID have access to Matthew's work. Notwithstanding without
getting too far off topic here, I choose to respond to the text as it has
been delivered on all levels -- from a single word to the entire canon.
For me, Matthew's account of how the field was purchased is sufficient. The
assumption that Judas paid for this in person as stated in an earlier post
is about 2000 years removed from the event. Matthew's account is at nearly
a couple of millennia closer.
Mark Cain
----- Original Message -----
From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
To: "Mark Cain" <mark at markcain.com>; "robert gill" <roby20 at hotmail.co.uk>;
<b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 03:09 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] QUESTION ON acts Acts 1:18 and the word kai idou
> This does precisely what should not be done. The text from one gospel
> cannot be used to supply features lacking in a different gospel unless
> there is a clear reference thereto -- and then only to the degree
> referenced. Therefore, Matthew may illucidate the phrase μισθοῦ τῆς
> ἀδικίας [MISQOU THS ADIKIAS] of Acts 1.18 as referencing the tradition
> that Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver, but one cannot assume
> that the rest of the tradition recorded in Matthew was known to the author
> of Acts.
> .
> george
> gfsomsel
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mark Cain <mark at markcain.com>
> To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>; robert gill
> <roby20 at hotmail.co.uk>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 8:00:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] QUESTION ON acts Acts 1:18 and the word kai idou
>
> Sometimes you don't need to know Greek to find the answers:
>
> Judas did not buy the land. The priests bought the land. Matt. 27:
>
> 3 When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was
> seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief
> priests and the elders. 4 "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed
> innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your
> responsibility." 5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then
> he went away and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests picked up the coins
> and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it
> is
> blood money." 7 So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field
> as a burial place for foreigners.
> Mark Cain
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> To: "robert gill" <roby20 at hotmail.co.uk>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 06:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] QUESTION ON acts Acts 1:18 and the word kai idou
>
>
>> 18οὗτος μὲν οὖν ἐκτήσατο χωρίον ἐκ μισθοῦ τῆς ἀδικίας καὶ πρηνὴς
>> γενόμενος
>> ἐλάκησεν μέσος καὶ ἐξεχύθη πάντα τὰ σπλάγχνα αὐτοῦ·
>> .
>> 18 hOUTOS MEN OUN EKTHSATO XWRION EK MISQOU THS ADIKIAS KAI PRNHS
>> GENOMENOS ELAKHSEN MESOS KAI ECEXUQH PANTA TA SPLAGXNA AUTOU.
>> .
>> It states that he acquired the property from the "wages of
>> unrighteousness" clearly referencing the 30 pieces of silver elsewhere is
>> noted as having been paid to him for the betrayal. Assuming, as I think
>> reasonable, that both Luke and Acts were written by the same author, it
>> is
>> curious that this is found in the Gospel according to Matthew and NOT
>> Luke. The same verb KTAOMAI is used in Acts 8.20 where Peter speaks to
>> Simon Magus who had offered to purchase the gift of the Holy Spirit
>> .
>> 20Πέτρος δὲ εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτόν·τὸ ἀργύριόν σου σὺν σοὶ εἴη εἰς ἀπώλειαν ὅτι
>> τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ θεοῦ ἐνόμισας διὰ χρημάτων κτᾶσθαι·
>> .
>> 20 PETROS DE EIPEN PROS AUTON, "TO ARGURION SOU SUN SOI EIH EIS APWLEIAN
>> hOTI THN DWREAN TOU QEOU ENOMISAS DIA XRHMATWN KTASQAI."
>> .
>> Did Judas pay for this in person? One might assume such since I doubt
>> that
>> they had real estate agents at that time nor do I suppose that Judas had
>> any servants to purchase it on his behalf. But, it doesn't tell us that,
>> does it? We can only maintain what it clearly states or what is
>> legitimately to be assumed therefrom because of the practices of the
>> time.
>> .
>> With your second question you jump from Acts to Matthew. In both cases
>> you
>> have cited the passage in the AV (Authorized Version or KJV). Do you know
>> any Greek? We do try to read the Greek here and not to simply answer
>> theological questions.
>> .george
>> gfsomsel
>>
>>
>> … search for truth, hear truth,
>> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
>> defend the truth till death.
>>
>>
>> - Jan Hus
>> _________
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: robert gill <roby20 at hotmail.co.uk>
>> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 4:25:41 PM
>> Subject: [B-Greek] QUESTION ON acts Acts 1:18 and the word kai idou
>>
>>
>> GREetings
>>
>> (Acts 1:18) (Now this man Judas acquired a field with the reward of his
>> unjust deed, and falling headfirst he burst open in the middle and all
>> his
>> intestines gushed out.
>>
>>
>> the word for "aquired" in the verse above is "ktaomai"
>>
>> according to the verse, did judas physcially pay for the field in person?
>> did he purchase the field? is the word "ktaomai" primary meaning to
>> purchase? there are a list of meanings for this word that all seem
>> synonymous to me,but what is the primary meaning?
>> ...
>>
>> 9 And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them,
>> saying...
>>
>> when did the idou occur, before the women met the deciples or after they
>> met the deciples?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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