[B-Greek] Fwd: Question about John 10:18

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Fri Feb 1 11:27:24 EST 2008


Although sent to me only, I think this was intended for the whole list.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Susan Jeffers <susan at read-the-bible.org>
> Date: February 1, 2008 8:01:07 AM EST
> To: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Question about John 10:18
> Reply-To: susan at read-the-bible.org
>
> right. I tell my students to try to think the sentence or exercise  
> in Greek, understanding the grammatical relationships within the  
> Greek; and in translating to think in terms of a range of defensible  
> renderings, rather than one right answer or code-breaking.
>
> I would love to hear folks' experience of how to help students  
> demonstrate that they are in fact "getting" the grammatical  
> relationships.  Providing simple sentences as exercises seems  
> inevitable, and translating the exercises leads to students seeking  
> right answers....
>
> What do you folks do, pedagogically, to help students demonstrate to  
> the instructor and themselves that they are "thinking through the  
> Greek as a mode of communication with its own patterns rather than  
> as a code to be deciphered into English"?
>
> I think immediately of Randall Buth giving commands in Greek to  
> stand up, walk across the room, put the grapes on the table etc and  
> when the student complies it's clear they're processing the Greek  
> meaning......
>
> But as a teacher of online intro Greek, I wonder what I can do in  
> the context of weekly exercises, which are mostly Greek-to-English  
> translations.
>
> Thanks for any advice!
>
> Susan Jeffers
>
> Carl Conrad wrote:
>> But you really ought, as soon as possible, to rid yourself of the  
>> notion that there's any single "right" way to convert the Greek to  
>> English. There are better ways and there are not as good ways; on  
>> the other hand there are lots of "wrong" or "bad" ways. And as soon  
>> as you can manage it, you ought to start thinking through the Greek  
>> as a mode of communication with its own patterns rather than as a  
>> code to be deciphered into English, as if English were what it  
>> ought to have been composed in originally, if that were possible.
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>
>>
>> On Feb 1, 2008, at 7:40 AM, Susan Jeffers wrote:
>>
>>> oops. I meant to send this as plain text.  sorry if it duplicates.
>>>
>>> Hi Matthew
>>>
>>> I recommend using both the NIV and the NRSV to check your work  
>>> against
>>> the Mounce answer key.  NRSV tends to be a little closer to the  
>>> Greek
>>> most of the time, but they're both very worthwhile for getting a  
>>> sense
>>> of the meaning in Greek.  And they help explain why the answer key  
>>> is
>>> what it is, sometimes, when the snippet in the exercise is very  
>>> short
>>> and out-of-context.
>>>
>>> For John 10:18
>>> NIV This command I received from my Father
>>> NRSV I have received this command from my Father
>>>
>>> Tomato, tomato indeed.
>>>
>>> Blessings,
>>>
>>> Susan Jeffers
>>> having taught using Mounce and used modern translations with the  
>>> answer key
>>>
>>> Matthew Blair wrote:
>>>> Hugh,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the input.  I *knew* these two were the same, but  
>>>> still....as
>>>> a new student I always have to wonder if there is some rule I  
>>>> didn't know
>>>> about :-)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again,
>>>>
>>>> Matthew
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 31, 2008 10:25 PM, Hugh Donohoe Jr. <justusjcmylord at yahoo.com 
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Matthew,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tomato Tomato
>>>>>
>>>>> Your literal translation puts the accusative "this
>>>>> commandment" in its natural place in English, after
>>>>> the verb.
>>>>>
>>>>> The NIV translation replicates the Greek word order in
>>>>> what is still natural English idiom.
>>>>>
>>>>> Both are correct. The NIV with a formal equivalence
>>>>> philosophy ironically is more literal here (if you
>>>>> count replicating word order as more literal). I guess
>>>>> the NIV captures the emphasis of the demonstrative
>>>>> pronoun and its first position in the sentence. If
>>>>> John intended such emphasis.
>>>>>
>>>>> ex animo
>>>>>
>>>>> Hugh Donohoe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>




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