[B-Greek] 1 John 3:6

Eric Inman eric.inman at wescorpflex.com
Mon Feb 4 08:57:17 EST 2008


In a situation like this I think the use of rhetoric might be more the issue
than the grammar. I would describe this as possibly the use of apparent
and/or near contradiction for rhetorical effect. John seems to like to
challenge or stimulate his readers in this manner. It might be useful to
list the cases where John does this type of thing and then see what patterns
you can find in how this fits into the different arguments he makes. There
also might be some commentaries that discuss John from a rhetorical
perspective. Perhaps some of the others on the list know of some books or
articles that would be useful in this regard.

Eric Inman

-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of bwmeyers at toast.net
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 5:28 PM
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [B-Greek] 1 John 3:6

In all my 60 years as a Christian, I consider 1 John as the most
difficult Book in the Bible, and also among the most important.

If what I'm asking is considered out of order here, I ask forgiveness,
and also that someone might answer me offline, in that case.  I still
can't comprehend, after years with b-greek, exactly what is proper and
what isn't:  I think my question is a proper one about Greek; but
obviously it will stir up "theological opinions."  I don't see how
that can be avoidable with many of what I would think were proper
questions, here.

In Dr. Henry Morris' commentary on this passage, he writes:

>"neither known him.  John had just noted that there is no one 
>that "sinneth not" (1 John 1:8, 10) and obviously would not 
>contradict himself by saying that no one who sins has known God. 
>Two solutions can be suggested to what looks, at first, like an 
>inconsistency. The believer has two natures-the old man and the 
>new man (Colossians 3:9, 10; Romans 7:16-17, 22-25). When he 
>lapses into sin, it is not his new man, but the old man, since, as far 
>as His new nature is concerned, (God's) seed remaineth in him: 
>and he cannot sin, because he is born of God" (1 John 3:9). The 
>second possibility is that the words "abideth" and "sinneth" 
>represent habitual action, not rigidly constant without exception. 
>The verbs are in the continuing present tense and so with 
>later verses to the same effect (1 John 3:7-10)."  

Referring to his "second possibility," he says what I have heard
a million times from the pulpits, that the idea is Greek verbs 
representing "habitual action, not rigidly constant without
exception."

That has always seemed to me to be totally unclear, and therefore
wrong.  1 John is supposed to be written "that ye may know."  How can
a Christian decide whether his sinning is "habitual," or "wilful," etc
or not?

My question, regarding the Grk, is, "are not the verbs in 1 John 1:8,
10 equally representing "habitual action?"   Are they not also in the
"continuing present tense?"  If there is such a thing.  I'm hearing
more and more, in modern opinion, that there is no such thing as
"tense," at all.  If so, that the verbs in 1 John 1:8, 10 are the same
"tense" as in 1 John 3:6, that throws out the whole garbage of the
"2nd possibility," leaving the first, which I like!  It then makes it
clear!  And it fits perfectly with the whole of Romans 7b.

Bob Meyers bwmeyers at toast.net

Christ Died to Save You
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