[B-Greek] reading for translation or understanding?
Eric Inman
eric.inman at wescorpflex.com
Mon Feb 4 09:38:54 EST 2008
A translation into "translation English" would entail using as much as
possible a one-to-one correspondence between the vocabularies and syntax of
the two languages, and it would be very similar to what beginning students
tend to produce. Such a translation would be absurd by normal translation
standards, but it would give the reader/user a tool which would allow them
to see many of the vocabulary and syntax usage patterns that Greek readers
see, assuming that they recognize that "translation English" is a third
language that would require translation before being considered authentic
English. In addition, it would allow the reader/user to make a lot of their
own decisions about how to translate/interpret various usages.
I can't imagine that a Greek scholar would want to take the time to produce
such a translation and put their real name on it, but on the other hand this
is the type of thing that is comparatively easy to do with software. I've
also imagined that a useful learning tool might be an automatic translator
which gives the user access to the tables and rules that are used for
producing the translation, allowing them to experiment with various
refinements, of the rules, including refinements for context, and see how
they modify the results.
Anyhow, while these things violate some of the taboos that are justly held
with respect to normal translations, I've wondered if they might be
beneficial to those who can't just read the GNT directly.
Eric Inman
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Kelly [mailto:seank at microsoft.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 4:45 PM
To: Eric Inman; 'Carl Conrad'; 'Jeffrey T. Requadt'
Cc: 'B-Greek B-Greek'
Subject: RE: [B-Greek] reading for translation or understanding?
I'd like to point out that while Biblical Greek was a living language with
"different landscapes of vocabulary, syntax, style, etc." the same is true
of English today. Ignoring for a moment the opinion shaping redefinition of
terms such as Gay or just the conversational redefinitions such as Rick
Warren's "Fundamentalist is someone who stops listening."
(http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/index.jhtml?ml_video=148506) our
language continually undergoes a shifting of meaning. As an example consider
how what KJV meant by chasten we would call discipline today whereas
training today would have been called discipline back then.
I'd be very interested in what a "translation English" would entail. Ideally
I would love to be able to read the GNT for understanding but being a
husband, father of 5 and in possession of a full-time job serve as
significant impediments right now. Hence I try to "get by" using the PC to
search lexicons and provide TMV helps to try and workout an understanding of
my own. Thanks to this discussion, I understand how that can go horribly
wrong.
Sean Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Eric Inman
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 6:12 AM
To: 'Carl Conrad'; 'Jeffrey T. Requadt'
Cc: 'B-Greek B-Greek'
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] reading for translation or understanding?
I think that's a very good point about reverence for the text possibly
explaining why some translations are so wooden and literal.
I have actually felt that wooden, literal translations might actually have
some value in certain circumstances for another reason. When reading the
different books of the GNT from different authors, settings, places and
times, you find yourself in different landscapes of vocabulary, syntax,
style, etc. These differences seem to get blurred or lost in translation.
This seems especially true from the standpoint that texts from several
different snapshots of Greek in its evolution as a language are translated
into a single snapshot of English in its evolution as a language. I have
often wondered if a minimal, strictly consistent (what I would call partial)
translation into "translation English" might produce a text which would have
some value to people wanting to be more aware of these shifts in style,
vocabulary usage, etc.
Eric Inman
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Carl Conrad
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 6:02 AM
To: Jeffrey T. Requadt
Cc: B-Greek B-Greek
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] reading for translation or understanding?
On Feb 2, 2008, at 11:29 PM, Jeffrey T. Requadt wrote:
> I know that a very common discussion on this list is when someone
...
> from? Or has this always been the focus, and I just missed it
> somewhere?
It's a good question. One thought that occurs to me is that Al
Pietersma has explained the woodenness of LXX versions of the Hebrew
Bible through the likeness of an "interlinear" translation and
suggests that it's a schoolboy sort of exercise in translation, the
endeavor being to reproduce the structure of the original in what some
call "formal equivalence" as opposed to "dynamic equivalence." I
wonder, however, whether it may perhaps be a matter of reverence for
the text governing the readiness to be creative in the effort to
express the full meaning of the original -- as if it were the FORM of
the original, even more than (or at least as much as) the CONTENT,
that the translator feels obliged to carry over into the target
language. By and large, it strikes me that the Latin of the Vulgate NT
is more or less comparable to the Greek of the LXX OT with respect to
"wooden" literalness.
...
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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