[B-Greek] DUNAMAI 1 John 3:9

Elizabeth Kline kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Tue Feb 5 23:18:12 EST 2008


LSJ:1996 452.2 moral possibility, to be able, dare, bear to do  
something ... mostly with neg. Hom.Od 1.250, 13:331 S.Ant 455, Th. 1:130

I checked all of these with the exception of Hom.Od 13:331. I don't  
think any of them support your thesis. Perhaps with a little work you  
could get somewhere with Hom.Od 1.250 . Words which mean something  
like venture, risk, dare are TOLMAW & compounds, KINDUNEUW & compounds.


S.Ant 455

449 KR.h        KAI DHT' ETOLMAS TOUSD' hUPERBAINEIN NOMOUS;
450 AN.h        OU GAR TI MOI ZEUS HN hO KHRUXAS TADE,
	451 OUD' hH XUNOIKOS TWN KATW QEWN DIKH:
	452 OU TOUSD' EN ANQRWPOISIN hWRISAN NOMOUS:
	453 OUDE SQENEIN TOSOUTON WiOMHN TA SA
	454 KHRUGMAQ' hWST' AGRAPTA KASFALH QEWN
	455 NOMIMA DUNASQAI QNHTON ONQ' hUPERDRAMEIN.

Notice that Creon uses TOLMAW in line 449 but the way I read DUNASQAI  
in 455, it has to do with the power or abitilty of Creon's command to  
overturn (runover? hUPERDRAMEIN)  the AGRAPTA ... QEWN NOMIMA.

Th. 1:130

TAUTA 2 LABWN hO PAUSANIAS TA GRAMMATA, WN KAI PROTERON EN 3 MEGALWi  
AXIWMATI hUPO TWN hELLHNWN DIA THN PLATAIASIN hHGEMONIAN, POLLWi TOTE  
MALLON HRTO KAI OUKETI EDUNATO EN TWi 5 KAQESTWTI TROPWi BIOTEUEIN,  
ALLA SKEUAS TE MHDIKAS ENDUOMENOS EK TOU BUZANTIOU EXHiEI KAI DIA THS  
QRAiKHS POREUOMENON AUTON MHDOI KAI AIGUPTIOI EDORUFOROUN, TRAPEZAN  
TE 8 PERSIKHN PARETIQETO KAI KATECEIN THN DIANOIAN OUK EDUNATO,  9  
ALL' ERGOIS BRACESI PROUDHLOU hA THi GNWMHi MEIZONWS ES EPEITA EMELLE  
PRAXEIN.

Here we have hO PAUSANIAS becoming puffed up because he received a  
letter with the result that he is OUKETI EDUNATO EN TWi KAQESTWTI  
TROPWi BIOTEUEIN ...

Hom.Od 1.250

249 hH D' OUT' ARNEITAI STUGERON GAMON OUTE TELEUTHN
250 POIHSAI DUNATAI:

Here Telemachus is complaining that his mother isn't able to put a  
stop to the feasting. You might be able to stretch this one a little  
and get some use out of it but what good is Homer for NT lexical  
semantics?

Elizabeth Kline

b-greek is doing the line wrap thing you see below:

Hom.Od 1.250
246 Δουλιχίῳ τε Σάμῃ τε καὶ ὑλήεντι  
Ζακύνθῳ, 247 ἠδ’ ὅσσοι κραναὴν  
Ἰθάκην κάτα κοιρανέουσι, 248 τόσσοι  
μητέρ’ ἐμὴν μνῶνται, τρύχουσι δὲ  
οἶκον. 249 ἡ δ’ οὔτ’ ἀρνεῖται  
στυγερὸν γάμον οὔτε τελευτὴν 250  
ποιῆσαι δύναται· τοὶ δὲ  
φθινύθουσιν ἔδοντες 251 οἶκον ἐμόν·  
τάχα δή με διαρραίσουσι καὶ αὐτόν."


Th. 1:130
ταῦτα 2 λαβὼν ὁ Παυσανίας τὰ  
γράμματα, ὢν καὶ πρότερον ἐν 3  
μεγάλῳ ἀξιώματι ὑπὸ τῶν Ἑλλήνων  
διὰ τὴν Πλαταιᾶσιν ἡγεμονίαν,  
πολλῷ τότε μᾶλλον ἦρτο καὶ οὐκέτι  
ἐδύνατο ἐν τῷ 5 καθεστῶτι τρόπῳ  
βιοτεύειν, ἀλλὰ σκευάς τε Μηδικὰς  
ἐνδυόμενος ἐκ τοῦ Βυζαντίου ἐξῄει  
καὶ διὰ τῆς Θρᾴκης πορευόμενον  
αὐτὸν Μῆδοι καὶ Αἰγύπτιοι  
ἐδορυφόρουν, τράπεζάν τε 8 Περσικὴν  
παρετίθετο καὶ κατέχειν τὴν  
διάνοιαν οὐκ ἐδύνατο,  9 ἀλλ’  
ἔργοις βραχέσι προυδήλου ἃ τῇ  
γνώμῃ μειζόνως ἐς

1 “Hist”, 1.130.2.1
ἔπειτα ἔμελλε πράξειν.


S.Ant 455

441 {ΚΡ.}        Σὲ δή, σὲ τὴν νεύουσαν  
εἰς πέδον κάρα,
	442 φῄς, ἢ καταρνῇ μὴ δεδρακέναι τάδε;
443 {ΑΝ.}        Καὶ φημὶ δρᾶσαι κοὐκ  
ἀπαρνοῦμαι τὸ μή.
444 {ΚΡ.}        Σὺ μὲν κομίζοις ἂν  
σεαυτὸν ᾗ θέλεις
	445 ἔξω βαρείας αἰτίας ἐλεύθερον·
	446 σὺ δ’ εἰπέ μοι μὴ μῆκος, ἀλλὰ  
συντόμως,
	447 ᾔδησθα κηρυχθέντα μὴ πράσσειν  
τάδε;
448 {ΑΝ.}        Ἤιδη· τί δ’ οὐκ ἔμελλον;  
ἐμφανῆ γὰρ ἦν.
449 {ΚΡ.}        Καὶ δῆτ’ ἐτόλμας  
τούσδ’ ὑπερβαίνειν νόμους;
450 {ΑΝ.}        Οὐ γάρ τί μοι Ζεὺς ἦν ὁ  
κηρύξας τάδε,
	451 οὐδ’ ἡ ξύνοικος τῶν κάτω θεῶν  
Δίκη·
	452 οὐ τούσδ’ ἐν ἀνθρώποισιν  
ὥρισαν νόμους·
	453 οὐδὲ σθένειν τοσοῦτον ᾠόμην τὰ  
σὰ
	454 κηρύγμαθ’ ὥστ’ ἄγραπτα κἀσφαλῆ  
θεῶν
	455 νόμιμα δύνασθαι θνητὸν ὄνθ’  
ὑπερδραμεῖν.
	456 Οὐ γάρ τι νῦν γε κἀχθές, ἀλλ’  
ἀεί ποτε
	457 ζῇ ταῦτα, κοὐδεὶς οἶδεν ἐξ ὅτου  
’φάνη.



On Feb 5, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Denise Parkes wrote:

>
> George
>
> Yes, I think that in some instances DUNAMAI can imply compulsion –  
> but mainly, though not necessarily, from an internal source –  
> one’s conscience, intuition, common sense, and personal  
> preferences. In addition to 1 John 3:9, I think there are a number  
> of other verses where DUNAMAI with a negative can be translated as  
> “cannot bear to” or “dare not.” Here are three examples:
>
> 1. Acts 4:19-20: …EI DIKAION ESTIN ENWPION TOU QEOU hUMWN AKOUEIN  
> MALLON hH TOU QEOU, KRINATE.  OU DUNAMEQA GAR hHMEIS hA EIDAMEN KAI  
> HKOUSAMEN MH LALEIN.
>
> The sense of compulsion is very strong here.  Peter and John COULD  
> NOT BEAR, nor did they DARE, to do anything that was not right in  
> the sight of God despite threats of violence.
>
> 2.  2 Cor.13:8: OU GAR DUNAMEQA TI KATA THS ALHQEIAS ALLA hUPER THS  
> ALHQEIAS.
>
> Paul is saying here that he CANNOT BEAR TO, nor does he DARE TO, go  
> against his true convictions.
>
> 3. Mark 6:5: KAI OUK EDUNATO EKEI POEHSAI OUDEMIAN DUNAMIN, EI MH  
> OLIGOIS ARRWOTOIS EPIQEIS TAS XEIRAS EQERAPEUSEN
>
> Verse 2 of Mark 6 shows that Jesus had recently performed miracles  
> in his home town but the audience did not have the same interest  
> and amazement that was evident in other places.  Thus Jesus COULD  
> NOT BEAR TO provide further evidence of his divinity to such a  
> faithless and impolite audience.  He was not disempowered by their  
> skepticism. This attitude of Jesus is present in his advice to the  
> disciples in verse 11 regarding cities that did not welcome them.
>
> George, if you have access to the documents cited for the entry for  
> DUNAMEI in the LSJ, I would be very grateful for your review.
>
> Thanks for your help,
> Denise Parkes
>









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