[B-Greek] relative value of re-reading the Greek NT versus following the advice of Conrad and Buth
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sun Feb 24 09:31:22 EST 2008
Submitted with tongue firmly implanted in cheek.
How dare anyone insinuate that it is possible to read and understand the Greek New Testament without having been exposed to Messrs. Conrad and Buth? Before Herr Conrad and Herr Buth none ever read and understood the New Testament. The sheer effrontery in inconcievable !
Sorry, I must stop at this point. reaching the keyboard while rolling on the floor laughing is too difficult.
george
gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
_________
----- Original Message ----
From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
To: James Ernest <j.d.ernest at bc.edu>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 7:37:24 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] relative value of re-reading the Greek NT versus following the advice of Conrad and Buth
On
Feb
23,
2008,
at
11:36
PM,
James
Ernest
wrote:
>
Mark
Lightman
<lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
asked:
>
>>
Is
there
anybody
out
there
who
ignores
Conrad
and
Buth
and
>>
just
reads
the
Greek
NT
and
feels
this
is
working?
>
>
I'm
sure
that
there
is,
and
that
the
feeling
is
delusional.
>
>
Well,
I
could
and
maybe
should
qualify
that
pronouncement,
but
>
instead
I'll
>
move
on
to
what
I
wanted
to
throw
in,
which
is
this:
whether
it's
>
reading
NT
>
or
reading
other
Greek
or
getting
oral/aural,
I
suspect
that
Greek
>
learning
>
is
like
geology,
or
Stephen
Jay
Gould's
notion
of
evolutionary
>
progress:
for
>
moving
from
one
level
to
the
next,
steady
progress
is
not
what
will
>
get
you
>
there.
It
will
take
the
equivalent
of
an
earthquake
or
a
mutation--
>
whether
>
that's
a
4-week
total-immersion
ulpan,
or
a
year
or
two
of
slogging
>
through
Euripides
and
Plato
and
Herodotus
in
MA
courses,
or
>
something
else
I
>
haven't
thought
of.
>
>
If
that's
a
depressing
thought--well,
maybe
I'm
wrong.
(Am
I?)
I
won't
try
to
respond
to
Mark
Lightman's
message
in
toto,
but
I
might
offer
a
comment
or
two
on
the
fundamental
question:
(1)
I
don't
really
believe
that
it
takes
an
earthquake
or
a
mutation
to
give
one
a
real
mastery
of
Greek;
what
it
takes
is
more
intense
and
sustained
effort
on
the
part
of
one
endeavoring
to
achieve
it.
But
even
that
effort
must
be
methodical
rather
than
haphazard.
I've
described
my
own
process
of
slogging
through
Homer
hour
after
hour,
night
after
night,
and
the
exhilaration
upon
coming,
eventually,
to
reading
line
after
line
of
text
--
not
so
much
effortlessly,
as
confidently
and
with
understanding.
I
think
that
one
must
do
this
slogging
with
each
new
author
one
tackles,
to
some
extent
--
particularly
an
author
with
a
distinctive
style
and
a
distinctive
lexical
range.
And,
as
I've
said
recently
with
regard
to
use
of
the
lexicon
while
reading,
one
needs
to
take
pains
with
lexicon
entries
and
not
just
scan
them
quickly
for
the
gloss
that
will
permit
one
to
go
on
with
the
passage
currently
being
read:
one
needs
to
take
pains
with
the
recurrent
words
that
have
significant
nuances
in
different
contexts.
As
for
the
reading
itself,
I
remain
convinced
that
the
more
one
keeps
reading
Greek
that
is
unfamiliar
or
less
familiar,
the
better
equipped
one
will
be
to
come
back
and
read
the
GNT
again.
(2)
Another
key
element
in
this
problem
and
its
solution
(how
to
achieve
mastery
of
Greek),
it
seems
to
me,
is
the
extent
to
which
analytical
investigation
of
the
text
is
primary
or
secondary.
At
the
textbook
level
this
is
a
matter
of
(a)
the
traditional
method
of
new
lessons
introducing
new
vocabulary,
new
grammar
items,
and
a
few
context-less
sentences
or
phrases
illustrating
the
new
construction(s)
and
employing
the
new
vocabulary
--
vs.
(b)
new
lessons
built
around
extensive
texts
of
connected
prose
(or
verse)
while
having
at
hand
the
lexical
and
syntactical
aids
that
will
assist
mastery
of
those
texts.
The
traditional
approach
focuses
on
analytical
skills:
memorization
of
paradigms
for
declension
of
nouns,
pronouns,
and
adjectives
and
conjugation
of
verbs
--
parsing
of
nouns,
pronouns,
adjectives,
and
verbs
--
identification
of
categories
and
subcategories
of
case
or
tense
or
mood
usage.
I
don't
say
that
the
analytical
process
is
worthless
but
that
it
does
NOT
naturally
lead
to
comprehension
of
connected
prose
or
verse
texts.
What
one
must
aim
at
is
thinking
in
Greek
as
one
reads,
not
sentence-by-sentence
searching
for
subjects
and
predicates
and
modifiers
but
reading
words
in
the
order
that
the
Greek-speaking
mind
finds
"natural"
and
grasping
the
cumulative
meaning
in
successive
phrases.
The
interlinears
and
parsed
texts
may
occasionally
be
useful
when
one
does
analytical
exploration
of
how
a
passage
works
to
communicate
its
meaning,
but
I
honestly
do
not
believe
that
they
will
teach
one
how
to
think
in
Greek.
I
am
inclined
to
think
that
the
predominant
approach
in
current
Biblical
Greek
pedagogy,
as
indicated
by
textbooks
as
well
as
by
analytic
tools
and
electronic
resources
being
made
available
to
students
of
Biblical
Greek,
focuses
upon
the
analytical
skills
rather
than
upon
reading.
And
that,
I
think,
is
why
so
few
students
of
Biblical
Greek
arrive
at
the
ability
to
READ
Greek.
An
analogy
might
make
this
paradox
clearer.
I
remember
being
surprised,
when
first
reading
Aristotle's
Nichomachean
Ethics,
to
find
him
insisting
that
lectures
on
morality
are
useless
to
those
who
do
not
already
practice
good
behavior,
and
that
children
learn
to
behave
rightly
by
growing
up
in
an
environment
where
right
behavior
is
practiced.
It
seemed
to
me
that
this
was
tantamount
to
saying,
as
Jane
Austen
might
say,
that
it
is
"good
breeding"
that
makes
people
good,
that
parental
and
peer
behavior
is
the
primary
factor
in
acquisition
of
good
character
--
although
one
knows
that
the
"well-bred"
can
behave
in
selfish
and
dishonorable
ways
just
as
surely
as
those
raised
on
the
wrong
side
of
the
tracks,
and
Jane
Austen's
novels
themselves
amply
illustrate
that
truth.
What
Aristotle
really
meant
by
insisting
that
lectures
on
morality
are
useless
to
those
who
do
not
already
practice
good
behavior
is
that
moral
philosophy
attempts
to
examine
the
"whys"
of
right
behavior,
not
the
"hows."
Comparably,
it
seems
to
me,
the
analytical
approach
to
learning
Biblical
Greek
tends
to
focus
on
the
"whys"
of
good
grammar
(Why
a
dative
with
this
verb?
Why
a
subjunctive
in
this
construction?
Why
an
aorist
rather
than
a
present-
tense
form
in
this
narrative
sentence?)
instead
of
the
"hows"
of
good
grammar.
One
learns
the
"hows"
of
good
Greek
grammar
(i.e.
how
lucid
and
intelligent
Greek
speakers/writers
express
themselves
in
order
to
be
understood
by
intelligent
Greek
listeners/readers)
by
reading
Greek
texts
and/or
listening
to
Greek
speakers,
NOT,
in
the
first
analysis,
by
parsing
the
words
of
their
sentences
and
explaining
the
constructions
of
their
cases,
moods
and
tenses.
Carl
W.
Conrad
Department
of
Classics,
Washington
University
(Retired)
---
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page:
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