[B-Greek] A question on hWS
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Thu Jan 24 09:08:07 EST 2008
On Jan 24, 2008, at 8:33 AM, RHutchin at aol.com wrote:
> At the end of 1 Corinthians 14:33 and before 14:34, we find the
> phrase, hWS EN PASAIS TAIS EKKLHSIAIA TWN hAGIWN.
>
> One translation (an older one, KJV) will have this phrase ending
> verse 33 while another (a newer one, ESV) will have it opening v34.
This is not a matter of verse division in the Greek so much as one of
syntactical interpretation. The phrase does belong to what is marked
in the Greek text as the end of verse 33.
> It seems, in my casual review of the use of hWS in the NT, that a
> hWs phrase always follows immediately after that which it modifies
> but most cases are pretty straightforward.? I did not see an
> exception (and there may be more) until I ran across the ESV
> treatment of the hWS phrase here, although ESV seems to be the way
> many people thought KJV should have been translated.
>
> It may be that this is the only place in the NT where a situation
> like this comes up.? However, is there any basis for a rule for the
> translator to use that says that a phrase beginning with hWS should
> be taken to modify that which it immediately follows?? Is there a
> grammatical argument for the translator to look at the phrase, hWS
> EN PASAIS TAIS EKKLHSIAIS TWN hAGIWN, as belonging with 14:33 and
> not 14:34?? In English, either translation sounds good, so I wonder
> how the Greek reader would react to this phrase in reading this text
> without the aid of punctuation.
Variously. You might note that NET translates "As in all the churches
of the saints, 34 the women should be silent in the churches ... " but
a footnote on that phrase "As in all ... " reads, "This phrase may be
taken with v. 33a."
I don't think the sort of rule you're suggesting about the
posiitioning of hWS clauses can be affirmed. Here, for instance,
where the hWS clause relates to a following hOUTWS clause, is an
instance where the hWS clause clearly goes with what follows:
Eph. 5:24 ἀλλὰ ὡς ἡ ἐκκλησία
ὑποτάσσεται τῷ Χριστῷ, οὕτως καὶ αἱ
γυναῖκες τοῖς ἀνδράσιν ἐν παντί. ALLA
hWS hH EKKLHSIA hUPOTASSETAI TWi CRISTWi, hOUTWS KAI hAI GUNAIKES TOIS
ANDRASIN EN PANTI.
Another:
2Cor. 7:14 ... , ἀλλ᾿ ὡς πάντα ἐν ἀληθείᾳ
ἐλαλήσαμεν ὑμῖν, οὕτως καὶ ἡ
καύχησις ἡμῶν ἡ ἐπὶ Τίτου ἀλήθεια
ἐγενήθη. ALL' hWS PANTA EN ALHQEIAi ELALHSAMEN hUMIN, hOUTWS
KAI hH KAUCHSIS hHMWN hH EPI TITOU ALHQEIA EGENHQH.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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