[B-Greek] Questions regarding accentuation

Kevin Riley klriley at alphalink.com.au
Sat Jul 19 22:42:45 EDT 2008


When Mastronarde says "fully supplanted" I suspect he is meaning that pitch
accentuation no longer functions in any way in any area, probably not even
in reading.  He is likely following the lead set by Allen in being
conservative and only claiming a change has occurred when it is obvious it
is virtually universal.  As there is evidence that some Greek dialects had
already moved from pitch to stress accentuation as early as around 400 BCE
(and some vowel changes were also evident in some dialects by then), the
process was obviously a protracted one that moved more quickly in some areas
than in others.  Attic seems to have been conservative in both respects. 
Had Spartan Greek become the dominant dialect, we may never have had any
idea that ancient Greek used pitch accent.
 
Stress can also occur with lower pitch in some languages, something that
text books in those languages rarely point out, and learners rarely notice
unless it is pointed out.
 
Kevin Riley
 
-------Original Message------- 
 
From: Randall Buth 
Date: 20/07/2008 5:06:39 AM 
 
 
Vasile STANCU 
HRWTHSE 
 
> 1. Mastronarde says (1:2), "By 400 C.E. A stress accent had fully
supplanted 
The pitch accent". 
 
> Question a: How can such a fact be proven? Or, at least, supposed? > 
 
Several answers to this. 
First, 400 CE/AD is way too late for fitting into the rest of the 
Greek langauge. 
Second, like with many things that are studied or measured outside the realm

Of the five human senses, one actually measures and observes things that 
Cause, or are caused, or are related to the phenomenon in question. 
Third, with ancient Greek this is related to the long and short vowel system
 
That system allowed a PERISPWMENOS accent on a long vowel where the 
First half of the vowel was high/rising and the second half was low/falling.
A 
Long vowel with a OKSYS high tone either had a high tone on the second 
Half of the 
Vowel or throughout the long vowel. 
Fourth, this is related to a process called monophthongization, where a
vowel 
Sound with two qualities or a changing quality becomes a single sound. 
Fifth, this is visible in the period 350BCE to 150BCE when the 
Following dipthongs 
Became single quality vowels: EI became I, AI became E, and OI became Y,
also 
W mega became O mikron. 
Sixth, one must know the outcome of the process in order to know that E did
not 
Become AI. We have that from the fact that modern Greek ends up with 5
single 
Quality vowels. 
Seventh, one must connect the dots with a theory they makes linguistic sense
 
That matches what we see in languages around the world. 
 
Linguists who try to explain the Greek vowel shifts in 350BCE to 150BCE find

That the reasonable culprit (catalyst) was a loss of phonemic (meaningful) 
Vowel length, with a corresponding loss of a platform for PERISPWMENA 
Accents. The resulting 'stress' accent may have sounded 'lilting', with some

Musical quality depending on how high the 'stresses' were, but it no longer 
Functioned with the raising and falling tone distinctions assumed for 5-7 
Century BCE. 
 
 
> Question b: Somebody who has some musical sense/training, please try to 
Utter a sentence for yourself in whatever language, with pure stress accent 
(please control the pitch so as to keep it at the same level). I have tried 
This and the result is something very strange... I do not know of a language

Today where people should normally employ such kind of accent.> 
 
Good observation. In fact 'stress' regularly co-occurs with a higher tone in

Stress languages. The amount of tone shift will differ, of course. STress 
Usually affects vowel length, too, for that matter, but that is irrelevant
in a 
Language that does not have meaningful distinctions based only on vowel 
Length. (PS: many languages have vowel length without tone distinctions.) 
To these stress-tone shifts, one must add prosodic shifts, changes in 
Tone due to the phrase or sentence structure. 
 
> 2. Mastronarde says (1:3), "One approach to pronounciation by a modern 
Student of the language is to ignore the accent; but for mnemonic purposes 
It is more practical and helpful to give a slight stress to the accented 
Syllable". 
 
> Question: Would it be not useful - also for mnemonic purposes - to 
Differentiate between the way an acute is modifying pronounciation as 
Compared with the circumflex, since, for example, Mastronarde says at 1:7, 
"If long and accented, U may have a circumflex ... Or an acute ... In this 
Case the type of accent must be learned for each word or particular form".> 
 
Yes, if one is learning Attic Greek. PERISPWMENOS accents were 
'high-low' carried on long vowels only, while OKSYS accents were 'high' 
Carried on any vowel. BARYS was apparently only a marking convention 
That mean 'optional' high tone on final syllable high-tone words. 
High tone was pronounced when at the end of a phrase and whenever the 
Word was alone, otherwise it was dropped in rapid speech. 
 
For Koine Greek such a system becomes anachronistic. The only 
Meaningful difference between PERISPWMENOS and OKSUS was that 
Final syllable PERISPWMENOS always kept its high tone, while tones 
With OKSYS markings would drop their tone in rapid speech. Human 
Languages naturally do the opposite: We use modern English for 
Reading Shakespeare, or reconstructed Shakespeare for Shakespeare, 
And either for Chaucer, but no one uses Chaucer for Shakespeare 
Or Chaucer for modern. 
 
Would it help to artificially impose the older system on the KOINE? 
Well, you would be producing a language that the original users 
Themselves did not use, neither in speaking or in writing. In one 
sense, that is what the later Byzantine scribes did with the 
writing system after 9 c. CE/AD. But they did not pronounce 
those differences, it was a writing convention only, and writing 
is a slow phenomenon that allows users to do things that are 
neither natural nor part of the actual language. 
In addition, your chances of success with the older system are not 
high. You would need to hear and communicate with people 
correctly producing this. I only hear people doing this when reading 
printed texts, not when speaking freely. 
 
and you might find that trying to master a fluent Koine is enough 
of a challenge. Then you can read the 'ancients' in the same way 
that Josephus or Luke read Xenophon or Platon. 
 
blessings 
Randall Buth 
-- 
Randall 



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