[B-Greek] Questions regarding accentuation
Kevin Riley
klriley at alphalink.com.au
Sun Jul 20 03:30:31 EDT 2008
You are misunderstanding what is being said. "Stress accent" does not mean
there is no pitch, any more than "pitch accent" means there is no stress.
It is what is considered most important by native speakers. Change the
pitch of an English sentence and you will be considered odd, change the
stress and you will be considered wrong. Modern Greek still uses pitch - 30
seconds of listening to it will tell you that - but changing the pitch does
not alter the meaning of the word, changing the stress will do so in some
instances. "Stress accentuation" does not mean or even imply there is no
pitch variation. That is where you are wrong to imagine a robot-like form
of speech. The Greek dialects began the process of changing from a pitch
accent to a stress accent long before it became common in Koine. It is a
path that has been taken by almost all Indo-European languages. I think
Serbo-Croatian is the main exception. One practical reason for not using
pitch accentuation is that in all pitch accented languages we know of today
the process is more complicated than just using the stresses marked in
classical Greek. The extra information that would make a pitch accented
Greek sound natural is missing. In theory I am in favour of classical Greek
being spoken with a pitch accent, but only if doing so leaves the language
with some shreds of its dignity, which the reconstructions I have heard do
not do. Until then, I am content to aim at learning to speak Greek with the
stress and intonation of modern Greek. It is not ideal, but at least it
will not send Greeks into a fit of laughter and/or indignation at what has
been done to their language by crazy foreigners (or barbarians, as one Greek
put it :) ).
Kevin Riley
-------Original Message-------
From: Vasile Stancu
Date: 20/07/2008 4:57:52 PM
My perception is that all languages we hear today are using pitch
Accentuation - some with graphic signs in writing, such as Spanish and
French and some without. Stress accentuation would mean - as I understand
The process - a kind of robot talking, with the audio volume increasing some
When accenting a syllable. So, since pitch accent is common place for us
Today (supposing my perception is true), why should we struggle to force it
Out from Koine Greek? The result would be in contradiction even with modern
Languages. Moreover, why should we stick with the entropic tendencies in the
Language that were manifest around the 1st century and later? Why not adopt
The position of the traditionalists of that time who maintain the old,
Classic features of the language even though the practice of pronounciation
Were altering the old system? Yes, we have the modern Greek today as a
Landmark, but I believe the process that led to it is not entirely natural,
Given the internationalization of the language prompted by Alexander the
Great and the 1000 years of Byzantine rule followed by another 500 years of
Ottoman occupation.
Vasile STANCU
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Riley
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 11:43 AM
To: Greek B-Greek
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Questions regarding accentuation
When Mastronarde says "fully supplanted" I suspect he is meaning that pitch
Accentuation no longer functions in any way in any area, probably not even
In reading. He is likely following the lead set by Allen in being
Conservative and only claiming a change has occurred when it is obvious it
Is virtually universal. As there is evidence that some Greek dialects had
Already moved from pitch to stress accentuation as early as around 400 BCE
(and some vowel changes were also evident in some dialects by then), the
Process was obviously a protracted one that moved more quickly in some areas
Than in others. Attic seems to have been conservative in both respects.
Had Spartan Greek become the dominant dialect, we may never have had any
Idea that ancient Greek used pitch accent.
Stress can also occur with lower pitch in some languages, something that
Text books in those languages rarely point out, and learners rarely notice
Unless it is pointed out.
Kevin Riley
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