[B-Greek] Matthew 16:18 - two questions
Harold Holmyard
hholmyard3 at earthlink.net
Sun Jul 20 17:09:29 EDT 2008
Elizabeth,
> On Jul 20, 2008, at 11:51 AM, Eric S. Weiss wrote:
>
>
>> 2. I think it may also depend on the meaning (probably idiomatic) of
>> "gates of hades."
>> Gates are generally defensive mechanisms, not offensive ones. For
>> the "gates of hades"
>> to be the attacker is to ascribe to "gates" a different meaning and
>> function than gates
>> usually have, hence my question.
>>
>
> Matthew 16:18 - KAGW DE SOI LEGW hOTI SU EI PETROS, KAI EPI TAUTHi THi
> PETRAi OIKODOMHSW MOU THN EKKLHSIAN KAI PULAI hADOU OU
> KATISCUSOUSIN AUTHS.
>
> PULAI hADOU can be understood as the power of death. The figurative reference is certainly not to 'Hell' but to Hades which was the region of the dead. I would agree with France (Matt. 2007) and others that PULAI hADOU is not used here to represent an aggressive attacker of THS EKKLHSIAS, as if Hades were spewing out demonic forces to attack HN EKKLHSIAN. Rather, the idea is that the power of death, which appears to be invincible will fail and the EKKLHSIA will prevail.
>
>
Hh: Thanks, Elizabeth. It is good to look at the way the Greeks
conceived of Hades. The following is from a website about Hades in Greek
mythology:
http://messagenet.com/myths/bios/hades.html
Lord of the Underworld
Hades is one of the six Olympians, i.e. one of the six children of
Kronos (Cronos) and Rhea. He and his two brothers divided creation into
thirds and each took a portion for their own. Hades chose, as his
dominion, The Underworld.
When mortals kneel before the cold hearted Hades, he metes out somber
justice and no one, once there, can ever leave his domain (except, of
course, Herakles (Heracles), Odysseus, Orpheus and a few others).
HH: The second paragraph seems relevant to understanding how the gates
of Hades might not prevail against Christ. "No one, once there, can ever
leave" Hades' "domain." Gates can keep in as well as keep out. So if the
gates can no longer keep people in Hades, they will have failed (= "not
prevail").
HH: This web page seems to list all the usage of "Hades" in the Iliad
and the Odyssey. Here are references that include "gates":
The Iliad (listed by book and line)
. 08.367 ...Athene (Athena) tells Hera about the time she helped
Herakles (Heracles) when he had to go to Hades of the Gates to retrieve
the hound, Kerberos (Cerberus), from the grisly Death God
. 09.312 ...Akhilleus (Achilles) tells Odysseus that he detests
the gates of Hades as much as he detests a man who speaks one thing and
means another
. 13.415 ...Deiphobos (Deiphobus) kills Hypsenor and shouts that
he has avenged the death of his friend, Asios, and now his friend has
company as he goes to Hades of the Gates
. 23.071 ...The ghost of Patroklos (Patroclus) stands over the
sleeping Akhilleus (Achilles) and urges him to bury him as quickly as
possible so that he may pass the gates of Hades
The Odyssey (listed by book and line)
. 11.277 ...While in the Underworld, Odysseus learns that the
mother/wife of Oedipus, Iokaste (Jocasta), went down to Hades of the
Gates because she had hanged herself
. 14.156 ...The disguised Odysseus tells the swineherd, Eumaios
(Eumaeus), that he detests the gates of Hades as much as he detests a
poor man who lies to gain favor
. 24.204 ...Odysseus tells Penelope about the ghosts of the dead
he saw at the gates of Hades
Yours,
Harold Holmyard
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